GCU Forum - template and actual printed cards

Sue_132963

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Re: template and actual printed cards
Reply #30 - Feb 18^th, 2008, 8:53pm

Shaun,
First let me say, I do not have a Printing background, so kindly excuse me if my questions are ignorant.
But your post has me thoroughly confused. If we upload an image at 5.2 x 7.2 and then the printer ENLARGES it--aren't we going to loose MORE of our picture?
It seems to me that we should rather be uploading something a bit SMALLER than the 5x7 in order to keep all our information when they blow it up (enlarge it). Am I completely out to lunch on this???
Thanks so much for your patience..
SueB

Quote from Shaun_131054 on Feb 15^th, 2008, 11:58am:

Hello Everyone,

Lots of good questions here. I'll try to address all of them.

We've been doing our own testing over the last couple months, and I can say that a new template for full bleed images is in the works, although I'm not too sure when it will be completed and available.

Harry is on the right track. Through testing and research we found that the fold edge and trim edges are typically about .1" and that images are slightly enlarged to 5.2x7.2" before they are printed, then cut to make a 5x7" image. For full bleed images you can try sizing your images to 1560x2160 pixels at 300 dpi, leaving .1" bleed on all 4 corners. Your card will be cut differently each time it's printed, but the .1" bleed should allow for this variance.

For the moment, we do still recommend keeping text and all important detail .25" inches from the edges of the card, just to be safe.

Images with borders have always been a little tricky. If your border is visible within the red dotted-line on our card templates then it will always appear on the card, however since the card may not always be perfectly centered, theres a chance that thinner borders may look uneven on print. We recommend that you use thicker borders so that the inconstancy is hardly noticeable to the eye if the image is not perfectly centered. A .5" border should work well.

With regard to the thumbnails that are displayed on the site, we currently don't have the ability to trim your images so that they always resemble the finished product. That said, if you upload full bleed images at 5.2x7.2 and keep all important detail .25 inches away from the corners, the difference between the thumbnail and the printed image should only be the trimming of the .1" bleed, which the customer will probably not notice. If the customer is not satisfied with the card, we will work with them to come up with a resolution.

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DENISE_132110

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Re: template and actual printed cards
Reply #31 - Feb 19^th, 2008, 6:12am

Quote from Harry_132595 on Feb 16^th, 2008, 12:54pm:

Hi Shaun,

I haven't tried printing them yet because I am waiting for one to be approved.

Based on measuring the 8 or so cards I still have in my hands, I came up with a template that is 5.325" x 7.455" that I output at 300 dpi from Corel draw. To find your recommend 1/4" border (which of course is more when blown up) I drew a 5x7, marked the 1/4", then enlarged it to a width of 5.325 (that gave me the 7.455 height maintaining the width/height ratio). I left the 5x7 centered as the referenced trim line.

You shouldn't make your new template 5.2 x 7.2 it's not the right proportion. 5x7 is 1/1.4 (width/height). 5.2x7.2 is 1/1.38 ... that .02 in "proportion" is huge. I assume when you enlarge you hold the aspect ratio and don't distort the image.

And as far as centering ... even on multiples of the same card, mine have been closer than I can measure. Very consistent ... horizontal or vertical.

I'm confused by you mentioning a 1 inch bleed.

the cards i have submited for the past 2 months approx. have been based on 5.2 x7.2... that gave me 60 pixels around the edges, i thought, to be the zone i needed to stay out of. i ordered test cards after changing to this formula and they seemed okay.

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Shaun_131054

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Re: template and actual printed cards
Reply #32 - Feb 19^th, 2008, 5:20pm

Quote from Harry_132595 on Feb 16^th, 2008, 12:54pm:

Hi Shaun,

I haven't tried printing them yet because I am waiting for one to be approved.

Based on measuring the 8 or so cards I still have in my hands, I came up with a template that is 5.325" x 7.455" that I output at 300 dpi from Corel draw. To find your recommend 1/4" border (which of course is more when blown up) I drew a 5x7, marked the 1/4", then enlarged it to a width of 5.325 (that gave me the 7.455 height maintaining the width/height ratio). I left the 5x7 centered as the referenced trim line.

You shouldn't make your new template 5.2 x 7.2 it's not the right proportion. 5x7 is 1/1.4 (width/height). 5.2x7.2 is 1/1.38 ... that .02 in "proportion" is huge. I assume when you enlarge you hold the aspect ratio and don't distort the image.

And as far as centering ... even on multiples of the same card, mine have been closer than I can measure. Very consistent ... horizontal or vertical.

I'm confused by you mentioning a 1 inch bleed.

Hi Harry,

Our printing partner noted that full bleed cards are printed at 5.2x7.2" inches then trimmed to 5x7". At 300dpi this is 1560x2160 pixels. You are correct, as the proportion does not match. A 1500x2100pixel image would scale to 1543x2160. I'm not sure if the width is stretched by 17 pixels or if the image is slightly cropped before printing. I'll try to find out.

Regarding the .1" (or 1/10") bleed, if you upload an image that is 5.2x7.2 inches, you can expect about .1" to be trimmed from each of the 3 corners and about .1" to appear over the fold on the back of the card.

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Shaun_131054

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Re: template and actual printed cards
Reply #33 - Feb 19^th, 2008, 5:24pm

Quote from Harry_132595 on Feb 18^th, 2008, 12:40pm:

Hello again Shaun,

I got curious so I went ahead and ordered 2 copies of my template test card (Product Id:152445) that I mentioned and am having them mailed to me. If you would like to credit me for those cards that would be very nice.

I've issued 4 card credits to your account. 2 for this test and 2 for any additional tests.

Please let me know how the cards look when they arrive.

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Harry_132595

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Re: template and actual printed cards
Reply #34 - Feb 19^th, 2008, 6:34pm

Quote:

Hi Harry,

Our printing partner noted that full bleed cards are printed at 5.2x7.2" inches then trimmed to 5x7". At 300dpi this is 1560x2160 pixels. You are correct, as the proportion does not match. A 1500x2100pixel image would scale to 1543x2160. I'm not sure if the width is stretched by 17 pixels or if the image is slightly cropped before printing. I'll try to find out.

Regarding the .1" (or 1/10") bleed, if you upload an image that is 5.2x7.2 inches, you can expect about .1" to be trimmed from each of the 3 corners and about .1" to appear over the fold on the back of the card.

Hi Shaun

Thanks for the credit on the cards. I guess I'll see what happens when I get my test cards.

I'm guessing when folks were uploading 5x7 images or 1500x2100 they were getting enlarged to "fill" the 5.2 and some of the image at the top and the bottom was just getting lost. That would account for the uneven borders on the printed cards. If the printer is really working with a 5.2x7.2 and the image isn't enlarged then borders should work fine.

Problem is some sites do work with the 5x7 image ... so folks are going to have to adjust their cards a little for other sites. If you toss a 5.2x7.2 into the Zazzle design tool for instance, you'll get white on the sides if you print to fit and loose some of the image if you print to fill. I guess one trick would be to have a little extra background to toss onto the 5x7 design.

Once I get my tests maybe I'll do the same image as a 5.2x7.2 and see if it turns out any different.

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Shari_132735

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Re: template and actual printed cards
Reply #35 - Feb 20^th, 2008, 1:52pm

Quote from Tom_133317 on Feb 20^th, 2008, 6:11am:

I've been using the template and uploading 1500px2100p images as recommended. I have a few images that hug the RED-LINE on the template but have not read anywhere here of how far the true card edge is in reference to the RED_LINE of the template. Hopefully Harry's test will determine a number within 1/10th of an inch.

My images in Large Preview indicate plenty of bleed (due to use of the template), but I have seen numerous other people's card previews that seem to show essentially no bleed! I'm curious if these still turn out fine, and I'm also curious if the approval process includes a cross-check by GCU relative to the template.

I get numerous marketing material done by Vistaprint online (such as business cards) and they have a cool preview tool after uploading that shows you exactly how your image will look, including where the cut line is. This preview usually leads me to add more bleed to "back-away" from the indicated cut-line. They show the cut-line rather "fat" to take into account machine tolerance, which is smart. I suggest GCU try out the Vistaprint process (it's free) to see how others are doing it.

You know, I've been working with templates from various print-on-demand sites and all usually require that you keep the important items you want to show up on your item to be within the dotted line area so they don't get cut off. Some places that little .25 inch doesn't even show up on the item so you could smudge and stretch the edges because you knew they would not show up on the item. When I started with GCU I thought it was the same way. However, I quickly learned that I could not smudge my edges out to create the extra space I needed to keep the important parts of my images inside that red dotted line because the smudging would show up on the printed card and look REALLY BAD! So I got in contact with Nasser at GCU (the head guy) and he explained it very simply to me. Just leave my images alone, don't try to stretch the image, just make sure the text falls inside the red dotted line and anything else I would deem important to show up. The shift is so minute that most people receiving the card would not notice. I of course don't deal with borders on my cards because I am dealing with my Nature photos or my late mothers watercolor prints. Ever since that conversation with Nasser, I have not had any problems.

I just take my image, make what changes I want to it, add my signature and save my file in photoshop elements 6.0 (PE) (now up from 2.0). All that is dealing with my images that have been shot at 6megapixel jpg format at 72ppi. I save that completed process as a .psd file. Then I bring into PE my GCU template. Then I drag my completed .psd file onto the GCU template. I drag the red dotted line layer so it is the top layer so I can see if all the important parts are within the red dotted line. Since my image is shot at 6 mp it is much bigger (2816x2120) than the 1500x2100 GCU template, I can then shrink my completed image by dragging the corners in to resize it to the template. More times than not everything fits within the red dotted line. I may have to shift my signature a little to fit inside, but everything usually fits fine. I have learned also, that when I am taking a photo, I also try to imagine this .25 border so I either backoff slightly when taking my photo. This allows me, when I am creating the card for everything to fit within the red-dotted line. It's kind of an entire process to make it work for the cards.

But, I just have not had the difficulty that seems to be being discussed. I guess if one was creating artwork with a border, I could see how that could be difficult. Borders were always difficult when I started out creating my own cards and printing my images inside of black doublelined border around the image. Because this accentuated the shift of my printer if I didn't get the cardstock in their securely. I guess that is why stopped dealing with borders and went to full bleed. Even CP can't get it right on their cards so I just do everything in full bleed, unless a shift actually made the card look more artsy depending on what I did with it in Photoshop Elements.

I'm starting to ramble, but I hope I have helped anyone in some way on how I deal with this template issue. Wink

Take Care!

Shari
www.flowerswithfeelingscentral.com

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Juliette_133346

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Re: template and actual printed cards
Reply #36 - Feb 21^st, 2008, 8:06am

Hi Everyone,
I am very new to this and I should have looked here first. Not only did I not understand the size issue, I didn’t realize I have to put the text on the card, too.
Now I have only a few cards uploaded so I don’t have a lot of cards to remake.

Does anyone have any hints for me about the text quality. I don’t know much about that either. Is the Photoshop text good enough? I think this is going to be fun, but a challenge for me.

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Dustin_133010

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Re: template and actual printed cards
Reply #37 - Feb 21^st, 2008, 8:55am

Hi Julie,

I'm glad you joined! You don't have to put text on the front of your cards unless you want to. And if you decide to, you can definitely do it in Photoshop, which is what I do.

Also, to make things easy, I just use a 5 x 7 image at 300 ppi and take into account that a bit of the image will go over the fold. I actually make good use of that bit of image that goes over the fold by add a copyright line and my URL in that area.

I look forward to seeing more of your cards!

Dustin

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Shari_132735

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Re: template and actual printed cards
Reply #38 - Feb 21^st, 2008, 12:15pm

Quote from Dustin_133010 on Feb 21^st, 2008, 8:55am:

Hi Julie,

I'm glad you joined! You don't have to put text on the front of your cards unless you want to. And if you decide to, you can definitely do it in Photoshop, which is what I do.

Also, to make things easy, I just use a 5 x 7 image at 300 ppi and take into account that a bit of the image will go over the fold. I actually make good use of that bit of image that goes over the fold by add a copyright line and my URL in that area.

I look forward to seeing more of your cards!

Dustin

Hi Dustin,

I just looked at your shop again when you said you make use of the area over the fold for your copyright line and URL. How has that actually worked for you on the actual printed cards. Have you received some of your cards at home to see if those items actually show up over the backside of the fold? I noticed you also printed them upside down (on landscape cards) using my magnifying glass onto my computer screen. Tricky! Do those items show up and not get cut off? Nice use of space!

Let me know! Great Tip! Wink

Shari
www.flowerswithfeelingscentral.com

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Pattiann_132699

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Re: template and actual printed cards
Reply #39 - Feb 21^st, 2008, 1:04pm

Dustin - I think that this use of the fold over area is brilliant! I wouldn't normally ask an artist to reveal a "secret", but this could help all of us, where our cards don't currently allow us to direct customers back to our shops for follow-up sales. Do you mind outlining exactly how you do this: placement, size of font, etc.

Quote:

Also, to make things easy, I just use a 5 x 7 image at 300 ppi and take into account that a bit of the image will go over the fold. I actually make good use of that bit of image that goes over the fold by add a copyright line and my URL in that area.

Dustin

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Dustin_133010

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Re: template and actual printed cards
Reply #40 - Feb 21^st, 2008, 1:22pm

Yes, I have ordered a card to confirm that using the fold over area of the image works for putting a copyright and URL.

I am using a 6 pt. bold sans serif font set in all caps, and pushing it right to the edge of the image on the side that folds. I put it upside down when the card is landscape, so that it reads properly on the back. I pick a color for the font that coordinates with the image but has enough contrast to be read clearly.

Give it a try and order at least one card before you add it to all your cards!

Dustin

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Pattiann_132699 Senior Member artist Posts: 361	Re: template and actual printed cards Reply #41 - Feb 21^st, 2008, 1:33pm Thank you for sharing, Dustin! Much appreciated.
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Shari_132735

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Posts: 186

Re: template and actual printed cards
Reply #42 - Feb 21^st, 2008, 1:55pm

Quote from Dustin_133010 on Feb 21^st, 2008, 1:22pm:

Yes, I have ordered a card to confirm that using the fold over area of the image works for putting a copyright and URL.

I am using a 6 pt. bold sans serif font set in all caps, and pushing it right to the edge of the image on the side that folds. I put it upside down when the card is landscape, so that it reads properly on the back. I pick a color for the font that coordinates with the image but has enough contrast to be read clearly.

Give it a try and order at least one card before you add it to all your cards!

Dustin

That is seriously cool, Dustin! Thanks for the How-To. Are you using the GCU landscape and portrait card templates and put the info in the area that is technically not within the red dotted line area but to the actual edge of the image using the 5x7 or 7x5 templates?

Thanks for sharing your secret with us! Grin

Shari
www.flowerswithfeelingscentral.com

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Dustin_133010

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Re: template and actual printed cards
Reply #43 - Feb 21^st, 2008, 2:16pm

I don't use templates. I just set up a Photoshop document at 5x7 or 7x5 inches and 300 ppi and go from there, adding images and text to the document.

I do keep any text that goes on the front of the card at least .25 inches from the edge. But I push my copyright line all the way to the edge of the image on the side that folds, because that side is not being trimmed.

Hope that helps!

Dustin

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Shari_132735

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Re: template and actual printed cards
Reply #44 - Feb 21^st, 2008, 10:13pm

Quote from Dustin_133010 on Feb 21^st, 2008, 2:16pm:

I don't use templates. I just set up a Photoshop document at 5x7 or 7x5 inches and 300 ppi and go from there, adding images and text to the document.

I do keep any text that goes on the front of the card at least .25 inches from the edge. But I push my copyright line all the way to the edge of the image on the side that folds, because that side is not being trimmed.

Hope that helps!

Dustin

That's Great Dustin! Thanks for that explanation. I can make that work! I appreciate your help and I'm sure others will benefit from these explanations.

Take Care! Grin

Shari
www.flowerswithfeelingscentral.com

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