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Keywords (Read 1942 times)
Norma_133903
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Keywords
Jan 22nd, 2011, 1:22am
 
I recently had a kind reviewer add some keywords to some cards. I was not happy! My keywords were worked out to exactly use the 250 characters allowed to the best advantage. The extra keywords added in the middle chopped off better words from the end of the list! I had to go through and re edit and check the whole section.
I am sounding ungrateful here, but my point is that with the search terms needed to find our cards, we need more spaces in the keyword box! The permutations on "aged 7" etc. alone take up loads of space, and I can never fit them in.
Its all very well asking us to put extra words like 'lace like' (see thread http://www.greetingcarduniverse.com/forum/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1295643608) into the keywords, but how about giving us extra spaces in the keyword box to do it? I have to cut a lot of descriptive words from my keywords because of lack of space. Too long and they just get cut off. We need at least 100 more characters.
Can the CGU team look at this and extend the box a little?
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Randall_140313
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Re: Keywords
Reply #1 - Jan 22nd, 2011, 3:44am
 
I could be mistaken Norma, but I think the keywords are still there even if you go over the 250 character limit.  It's just 250 characters that will show.  They become basically hidden from view, but not from searches.  I may be wrong on this, but at other sites that is how it sometimes works.  A customer who is searching for a certain card by keyword will never go and look at all the keywords you included as their only concern is that the keyword search produces a good variety of cards based on that search and the keywords they used.
The only time I'll ever check someones keywords is if I'm listing something similar and want to know what keywords others have used to aid in a search for that item.  Also, when I'm dumbfounded on how somethng showed up in one of my searches, I'll research the poster's keywords to see why that came up in my search.  If it's due to their use of totally unrelated keywords just to boost views and it's not to difficult to contact them, I'll probably post a comment to the person who created the keywords and give them a good scolding, not that it will ever do any good.  Some people think that more views automatically creates more business and don't understand the concept of 'qualified' views.
In conventional sales they would call these 'qualified leads', basically a view is a lead for sales.  With that in mind it is important to keep our keywords consistent with the product so we are getting 'gualified views'!
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Norma_133903
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Re: Keywords
Reply #2 - Jan 22nd, 2011, 4:48am
 
Hi, i just tested it, and the keywords are removed if you go over the limit. When you go into manage cards and edit, they are cut off at the 250 letter limit and are no longer there.
I agree with you about spamming keywords, but we need keywords to help customers find our cards when searching, and the variants on 7th birthday card for example, (just a few:7th birthday,7 birthday,7 years old,seven years old,7,) are tremendous. That is beside a physical description of the image.
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Randall_140313
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Re: Keywords
Reply #3 - Jan 22nd, 2011, 9:15am
 
Hmmmm....Yes, more characters would be good then.  I wouldn't think that keywords would be a serious space issue on the site and can't see how allowing a hundred more characters would be a difficult programming feat, but then I'm not a web developer or whatever they call the people that do that sort of thing.
Some cards, I'm hard pressed to find enough keywords to use up the characters, but others that need more descriptives, yes we do need more room for keywords.  
I've been just going on until I used all the keywords I could think of that fully described my card seeing that they don't automatically cut you off or prompt you to reduce the characters to the 250 max stated.  Guess I need to go back and make sure I have the most applicable keywords showing.
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Sheryl_133470
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Re: Keywords
Reply #4 - Jan 22nd, 2011, 2:27pm
 
First, I would like to say that it is very nice of the reviewer to add the additional keywords for us.  After all we want to sell cards.    
 
Regarding the request to add additional characters to the keywords, I would say I would really appreciate it too.  I'm glad you brought it up.  
 
Sometimes we have long keywords to spell out.  For instance, the keywords, Administrative Professionals Day, etc. are long and take up a lot of character spaces to start with, and there are other holidays that have long keywords to use as well.   Or when placing cards in the cancer categories and we spell out all the different types of cancers as keywords along with chemotherapy, radiation, etc, it doesn't leave much room for any other type of keyword that would be beneficial to selling the card.  
 
Another issue with the keyword box, is when we type all our keywords in and then find out after they have been approved that many have been cut off because of the limited number of character spacing.  So, could the keyword character box be fixed so it counts down properly and stops entering keywords when the characters are used up?
 
The reason I ask, is because a problem I encountered with keywords getting cut off was when I first started at GCU.  I placed a card in the business category and the last keyword I typed was associate.  Well unbeknownst to me, the "ociate" part of that word was cut off leaving a not so nice keyword remaining.  I was horrified when this happened as I didn't know it had happened til months later and I was checking that card.  I am now very careful which word I place at the end of the keyword list.   Shocked
 
I hope adding additional characters to the keyword box, and fixing the character keyword countdown to work properly can be addressed for us.  
 
Thank you.
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Doreen_137017
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Re: Keywords
Reply #5 - Jan 22nd, 2011, 2:57pm
 
I too agree we need more space for keywords.  There certainly are two school's of thought.  It used to be that keyword 'training' said the more the better, plural and singular versions and phrasing should all be included.  Today, there are those who believe only the first 10 make any difference at all and this is still being debated along with whether milk is good for you or not  Grin
 
I am from the old school, and whether right or wrong, this has ALWAYS worked for me.  On GCU where I have a lot of trouble is when I make non-English language cards and wish to include both English and the foreign language keywords.
 
So yes...please increase our keyword space!
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Randall_140313
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Re: Keywords
Reply #6 - Jan 22nd, 2011, 4:53pm
 
" ... I placed a card in the business category and the last keyword I typed was associate.  Well unbeknownst to me, the "ociate" part of that word was cut off leaving a not so nice keyword remaining."
 
Sheryl, very funny!  Probably upset a few donkey farmers!
 
In regard to Doreen's post.  Yes I've heard said that about the keywords and only the first 20 or so will come up.  That is a falacy though as if all your keywords are there than any proper search engine will pull them up.  The key is your ranking in a search and that has not much of anything to do with keywords and more to do with meta tags and spyders.  The more a link is clicked on and the more matching meta tags the higher up you will show in a search.  As for GCU though all your keywords will come up in a search at the site, so if you had a critical keyword cut off and not available, your card won't come up in a search using that keyword.  So all keywords are of equal importance in a local search such as someone going to GCU and looking for a 67th Belated Birthday card for an aunt who likes yellow flowers.   If someone typed in belated birthday, aunt, 67 and you have all those keywords in your keyword box, then all those keywords will be searched and likely your card would come up with probably not more than a couple of others which would be that specific.  Say you only had room for birthday and belated, then your card would come up in a search along with however many other cards used those same two keywords which could be hundreds.  the more keywords you use and the more specific, the more likely you will match properly with a prospective buyer and it doesn't matter if it's the first keyword of your keywords or the umpteenth.  
As for meta tags and being picked up by spyders on searches outside of GCU, that is something that happens over time.  Long periods of time if you don't do any outsde promoting of your business.  The more you do promote and the more people click  on your links, the higher those will move up and rank in a google or Bing search.  That's where using facebook and other sites has it's merit.  When people click on your link that click is picked up and registered in the data banks of the search tools.  The more it is clicked on and activity is seen, the further up the ranking bar it goes.  You can increase searches for your store by having friends and family click on your store and leave commnets regularly until you have a legitimate following of non related people to your store.
I'm no expert, but basically that was the way it was explained to me.
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Card_Review_Team
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Re: Keywords
Reply #7 - Jan 23rd, 2011, 4:53am
 
Norma,
 
Mindy or Shaun will have to be the ones to answer your request for more keyword space, but one tip I can give you is that keywords don't have to be repeated. For example, you've used "7" 3 times, "birthday" twice, and "years old" twice. I agree that "7th", "7", and "seven" are important to include, but the repeats can be removed with no harm.  
 
Please remember, too, that card titles contain important information for search engines. Example: 7th Birthday - Red & Green Balloons would be a keyword-rich card title. But remember to keep the card title human-friendly and not load it with keywords, such as: 7th Birthday - Red & Green Balloons, Birthday Cake, Children with Party Hats. Once the search engine finds an assortment of cards for the customer, the human factor takes over and card titles should be clear without being cluttered. Also remember that there is no need to waste keyword or card title space on the word "card". GCU adds that word.
 
Hope that helps.
 
Reviewer 443
 
Quote from Norma_133903 on Jan 22nd, 2011, 4:48am:
Hi, i just tested it, and the keywords are removed if you go over the limit. When you go into manage cards and edit, they are cut off at the 250 letter limit and are no longer there.
I agree with you about spamming keywords, but we need keywords to help customers find our cards when searching, and the variants on 7th birthday card for example, (just a few:7th birthday,7 birthday,7 years old,seven years old,7,) are tremendous. That is beside a physical description of the image.

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Doreen_137017
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Re: Keywords
Reply #8 - Jan 23rd, 2011, 7:24am
 
Quote from Card_Review_Team on Jan 23rd, 2011, 4:53am:
Norma,

Mindy or Shaun will have to be the ones to answer your request for more keyword space, but one tip I can give you is that keywords don't have to be repeated. For example, you've used "7" 3 times, "birthday" twice, and "years old" twice. I agree that "7th", "7", and "seven" are important to include, but the repeats can be removed with no harm.

Please remember, too, that card titles contain important information for search engines. Example: 7th Birthday - Red & Green Balloons would be a keyword-rich card title. But remember to keep the card title human-friendly and not load it with keywords, such as: 7th Birthday - Red & Green Balloons, Birthday Cake, Children with Party Hats. Once the search engine finds an assortment of cards for the customer, the human factor takes over and card titles should be clear without being cluttered. Also remember that there is no need to waste keyword or card title space on the word "card". GCU adds that word.

Hope that helps.

Reviewer 443


 
Such great advice!  Thank you 443!
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Norma_133903
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Re: Keywords
Reply #9 - Jan 23rd, 2011, 9:42am
 
Hi card Reviewteam,  
 
I think you are very wrong in what you say.
Most people searching for a seventh birthday card will type in the search terms something like "7 birthday" or "7th birthday". In both these cases, if the search term is not precisely defined in the keywords, the search will rank that card much lower than one with the exact term. Thus, if  I took you advice and removed the extra sevens etc, my card would not be found nearly as often.
Maybe on this site your method is correct, but for searches using Google etc, we would lose out big time. I feel I am already missing because I do not have the space to use the word card in every permutation!
 
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Card_Review_Team
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Re: Keywords
Reply #10 - Jan 23rd, 2011, 10:32am
 
Hi, Norma,
 
I was speaking of the duplicate keywords you have here: 7 birthday,7 years old,7. "7" appears 3 times. You could replace this series of keywords with 7, birthday, years old. Granted, in this example you don't gain a lot of extra characters, but the point remains that duplicates are not needed. A search for 7 years old or 7 birthday will bring up these cards in an internal or external search engine. Keywords don't have to be treated as phrases.  
 
A good place to start for information on Google SEO (Search Engine Optimization) is
http://www.google.com/support/webmasters/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=35291
 
Please notice that one of the items listed that can help your page rank is the page title, which, in the case of GCU, is the card title.
 
I'm not taking a position on whether or not GCU needs to add more space for keywords, just giving ways in which artists can make the best use of whatever amount of space is offered.
 
Reviewer 443
 
 
Quote from Norma_133903 on Jan 23rd, 2011, 9:42am:
Hi card Reviewteam,

I think you are very wrong in what you say.
Most people searching for a seventh birthday card will type in the search terms something like "7 birthday" or "7th birthday". In both these cases, if the search term is not precisely defined in the keywords, the search will rank that card much lower than one with the exact term. Thus, if  I took you advice and removed the extra sevens etc, my card would not be found nearly as often.
Maybe on this site your method is correct, but for searches using Google etc, we would lose out big time. I feel I am already missing because I do not have the space to use the word card in every permutation!


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Kathleen_137290
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Re: Keywords
Reply #11 - Jan 23rd, 2011, 4:57pm
 
Just some food for thought.
 
Has anyone used google's wonder wheel.  I sometimes test my keywords on it to see if they are being used by searchers or to see if my cards come up.
 
Try this:
Type 7th birthday in the google search box.
In the left part of page that comes up, click on more search tools
Click on Wonder wheel
From wheel click on 7th birthday card
On the right side of page is the search results
 
You can play around with the time, timeline
If you click past 24 hours (my time today was 4:20 pm), second listing is this forum thread.  Thought that was interesting
 
Now if I type in 7th birthday card for son with dogs
Then click on one of GCU's cards that's listed
I picked the one with the title 7th Birthday Dog Card (which is designed by Kathy Henis) and checked out the description and keywords on that card.
 
Gives me a good idea of what works.  But this card is for a girl!
You can check out some of the other cards.
Ritmo Boxer card does not have boy, girl or son
GCU 7th birthday page comes up under age specific only
 
Now, if I only use 7th birthday card for son
GCU Card comes up by Emila Yusof
keywords - Happy birthday son, 7th birthday, age specific, little boy, age seven, seven
title - Happy 7th Birthday Son, no description.
My star design card is the second listing on the Google search page.
 
If you check, there are only 3 cards on GCU under son>age specific>7 or 7th, none of them have a dog theme.  
 
Hmmmm, what would that suggest?   Especially if your focus is dog lovers.
 
Try out some of the more popular categories.
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