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Right to use an image (Read 3038 times)
Selina_136051
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Right to use an image
Nov 29th, 2010, 2:07pm
 
About two months ago several of my cards came back from the reviewers with no status change but a question over my right to use the images I used in my cards.
I went to a great deal of trouble to explain to the reviewers my methods and as a result I made a blurb up to put in the "notes to reviewer" box for each and every card  I make now. That blurb reads like this
 
"A reviewer recently questioned me regarding the source of one of my images so I wish to state for the record that: I do have the right to use this image, as with all my images they are either my own photographs or works or they are works I have purchased the license to use giving me the right to use them both personally and commercially; or they are a mix of all the above. I also use numerous textures and layers to create vintage style works and Old-fashioned style works occasionally."
 
I, like everyone else, also have to tick the little box stating we have the rights to use the images.
I purchase my images from several places, I have a friend who makes textures and runs a blog on using them and gives textures away for free for use personally and commercially and I use photoshp CS4, several topaz plug in programs, paint shop pro and my own photography along with my purchased products.
 
Today I got a card back with no status change with this message
 
Please Note: If you have the rights to use this image, we need to have the URL and TOU of the source.
 
Since all my cards use several processes and images am I now going to have to supply the urls and tou for every single image i upload to use??  
 
How on earth do I PROVE I actually took a particular photo and that it belongs to me and I just played with it in one of my programs to get it looking like it does?
 
sorry but geez people I tick the box, I further put in writing I have the rights to use the images now I am having to prove what I say is true? Why??
 Angry
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SunAtNight_145914
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Re: Right to use an image
Reply #1 - Nov 29th, 2010, 2:34pm
 
I too have been asked. Unfortunately individuals who are not professionals have ruined it for those who fully understand copyright laws. Time and time again this happens.  
 
At first, one reviewer told me that I had to make a note saying that it was my copyright. Then they retracted that. I didn't see it anywhere in the Wiki that says artists have to make a statement in the note field to the reviewer and check the checkbox. Utterly ridiculous!
 
I believe that proof should be the copyright registration number or perhaps another stock company URL that has your name and the image in question on it. As of yet, I haven't been asked for a URL.
 
Personally, I just don't understand why they repeatedly ask. My other professional licensing stock agencies do NOT ask twice. At first I thought it was because I offer my images through other stock companies who do have partnerships all over the world, but I don't think that is the reason at all. I got so frustrated because of the reviewing process asking so many questions about a single image that I just deleted it. It wasn't even worth the reviewer's time nor mine to keep extending the number of days to get approval. It had already been over 2.5 weeks and they just added another 3 days to that.
 
I also believe that sometimes people forget that graphic artists are skilled in so many of the different arts that they become tainted with disbelief. There are artists who are photographers, painters, digital illustrators and 3D modelers who do their own textures. So, images that they crank out have very different looks to them. It's sad when an artist becomes type casted.  
 
It's also sad that GCU is to the point where they have to ask twice about copyright and licensing.  
 
Something to think about...(me included) do not upload images unless already registered copyright in the country that you do business in.
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Janet_134086
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Re: Right to use an image
Reply #2 - Nov 29th, 2010, 2:46pm
 
I know Selina, it can get a bit monotonous sending information in...after you`ve already clicked the box,lol.
If I use another artists work...I type in Courtesy of _________, in the Image By area per card.
If I were to find myself using two artists work, Id include the main image..but, I also give credit to artists of my images in a bullion on my storefront.  
While making a design...I keep a book of the card image, artist, font, and so on. So, its not too much of a bother if GCU requires info.
I wouldn't bother with textures and stuff like that, unless their TOU state you need credits on stuff you use.
Your cards are awesome!
Janet Lee Smiley
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Sandra_137209
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Re: Right to use an image
Reply #3 - Nov 29th, 2010, 2:58pm
 
I too have been asked about my rights to an image. Actually the card was a combination of several different images. The main image was a public domain Dover image. Everyone knows Dover images are free use, with some restrictions, of which I am aware of and do not violate. The other graphics used were brushes and images that are free for commerical use, and some that I drew myself. I have a graphic art tablet and design a lot of my own card elements. I am very careful when down loading images to read the "terms of use". If the image is not free for commercial use, I don't download it.  
 
I did send the reviewer a note re-stating that I do have the rights to use the images. But I did not specifically state where each element of the card came from. Maybe I should have, I have not had a reply.  
 
Last night I found a site where photographers and artist generously offer images that are public domain, and free for commercial use. This time I made a note of the site, so if asked, it can be verified. Although I doubt that a reviewer would go to the site and search through the thousands of images there to find the one I used.  
 
Just venting here, but it is aggrevating and insulting to have my honesty questioned.
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Selina_136051
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Re: Right to use an image
Reply #4 - Nov 29th, 2010, 3:15pm
 
That is I think,more than anything. what has upset me, is the fact that this reviewer is calling into question my honesty.
 
yes, they are!!
 
I tick the box supplied saying I have the rights to use the image I have submitted.
 
I supply a written piece further stating my rights to use this images and a generic outline of why.
 
And still I get questioned and told to PROVE my statement. That is in essense calling me a liar and I am afraid I don't like that.
 
I do all GCU asks of me ansd still get questioned
 
How on earth am I supposed to PROVE I own a photo I took and then manipulated in photoshop??  
 
Once again I apologise if I offend anyone but calling into question my honesty and integrity has upset me and I am sure I am not the only person who would be upset.
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Rod_140621
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Re: Right to use an image
Reply #5 - Nov 29th, 2010, 4:43pm
 
I have only been asked once but it was a painting that i painted and i invited the reviewer down to see the original if he didn't believe me. I get the feeling that some reviewers don't like me and are giving me a hard time. Maybe I'm paranoid, but calling our honesty into question doesn't help. adding insult to injury is having to wait an extended period of time then being told to jump through aditional hoops which take more time and soon the holidays will be over, especially when there is a week shipping plus any additional shipping our customers have to do once they receive the cards themselves. all for 50 cents a card IF the customer isn't getting a discount.  
I simply isn't very professional on GCU's part to alienate the creaters of their product. I haven't quit but I'm certainly not as gung ho as I was.  Sad
Rod
btw if your image has undergone more than 5 changes from its original form, it can no longer still be considered to be the original image. It is still ethical to get permission to use it in the first place but the law is applied differently.
rh
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Selina_136051
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Re: Right to use an image
Reply #6 - Nov 29th, 2010, 5:02pm
 
Quote from Rod_140621 on Nov 29th, 2010, 4:43pm:
I have only been asked once but it was a painting that i painted and i invited the reviewer down to see the original if he didn't believe me. I get the feeling that some reviewers don't like me and are giving me a hard time. Maybe I'm paranoid, but calling our honesty into question doesn't help. adding insult to injury is having to wait an extended period of time then being told to jump through aditional hoops which take more time and soon the holidays will be over, especially when there is a week shipping plus any additional shipping our customers have to do once they receive the cards themselves. all for 50 cents a card IF the customer isn't getting a discount.
I simply isn't very professional on GCU's part to alienate the creaters of their product. I haven't quit but I'm certainly not as gung ho as I was.  Sad
Rod
btw if your image has undergone more than 5 changes from its original form, it can no longer still be considered to be the original image. It is still ethical to get permission to use it in the first place but the law is applied differently.
rh

 
Hi Rod, I sometimes feel the same way.
 
Unfortunately the image this reviewer has picked on is a photo I took myself and digitally altered in photoshop CS4 and topaz Simplify then Topaz Adjust. how do I prove an image I used is a photo I took!!
I have tried to explain it to the reviewer BUT i still feel as if asking me to prove what i say is true is taking things too far and I don't see why I should have to detail every move I make in order to produce an image - which is how this has made me feel.
 
supplying GCU with a written piece stating I have the rights to use the image in addition to ticking their box for that purpose should be enough.
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Rod_140621
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Re: Right to use an image
Reply #7 - Nov 29th, 2010, 5:42pm
 
Selina, I don't know what to tell you. If you keep a record of each step of your process (like doing a "save as" everytime you make a change) you could send the raw file and all the steps you took to show your process. Of course no one has the disc space for this and it would be silly to expect someone to keep such records (i have sketches sometimes but often the sketch becomes the painting and there is no process to show). There shoud be a way to go over the reviewers head or at least to a mediator. some way to rectify the situation. In the past, I have stood up to reviewers (which is why I think some don't like me) now I simply withdraw the image if it is called into question. If they want to be petty tyrants I can't stop them, and there are other avenues to pursue; ie, zazzle, etsy etc... it's just not worth a protracted argument for what the payoff is.  
btw your cards are totally awesome!
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Selina_136051
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Re: Right to use an image
Reply #8 - Nov 29th, 2010, 5:56pm
 
Thanks Rod, much appreciate your comments.
 
It was my hope in posting this here that Mindy or Shawn or someone would see it and be able to offer some advice or comment on all this... I still hope someone will.
 
I know GCU has to make sure we abide by copyright laws etc.., I do understand that and I have no problem with that. i know how it feels to have a piece of work "stolen" and used without my permission.
 
BUT I will never understand how a reviewer can call into question an artists honesty when that artist has done as GCU asks and then gone further provided in writing they have the right to use the work to try and avoid a sitiation such as this. It seems to me that by trying to do the right thing and save time for myself and reviewers in the whole process all that has happened is that one reviewer has decided to question my honesty. cry
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Bettie__142065
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Re: Right to use an image
Reply #9 - Nov 29th, 2010, 7:17pm
 
Hi,
 
I am so glad someone asked this question. I like to use my own photos if I can like the  Christmas card I did with the Cardinal and the white throated sparrow,then incorporated it into  a Christmas Card.... but a lot of the time I use public domain photos..My images are also found on  stock photo sites such as...Big Stock Photo,and Dreamstime to name two. ( I hope thatat was ok...someone named Zazzle and Cafe Press.  
 
Anyway the reviewers do appear to question one's honesty when they  ask for proof...  
 
Bettie
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Rebecca_140932
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Re: Right to use an image
Reply #10 - Nov 29th, 2010, 11:44pm
 
I too have used some public domain photos that are free for commercial use. The key is to always place a URL link back to the original web page of where you got it and you won't ever have any trouble with this. You should place it in the Artist's Notes section, that way the buyer as well as the reviewer can see it.
 
As far as the reviewer questioning if an image is yours, that can be cleared up by sending them the original taken by you. You don't have to show them the step-by-step process of creating the card. They know we all use some kind of software at some time or another. I had this same trouble at another website  lips sealed and the problem was that the image was so good that they didn't believe it was mine. It was, but I had to prove it. It should make you feel good, not upset. That is probably the case with you as well.  
 
Don't get upset over this. They are just doing their job, that's all.  
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Norma_133903
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Re: Right to use an image
Reply #11 - Nov 30th, 2010, 12:10am
 
I sell images on stock sites, and i have seen some of those images offered as public domain! Just because it is offered does not always make it true. A lot of the images on the free sites are stolen. Don't trust the provenance. It is your responsibility to ensure that the images are free to use, and you cannot be sure that you are not using stolen goods.
I have seen and reported stolen pictures used on this site. I am sure the artists got them from 'free' sites.
 
The Microstock forum http://www.microstockgroup.com/forum/ has a whole section for reporting and tracing stolen artwork.
 
If you did not create or pay for it you should not use it unless you know the artist. It just is not safe to do so.
If you did pay for it, you should have bought a license that allows you to use the images for resale and multiple reproduction. Such a license is horribly expensive even from microstock sites.
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Selina_136051
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Re: Right to use an image
Reply #12 - Nov 30th, 2010, 6:12am
 
Quote from Norma_133903 on Nov 30th, 2010, 12:10am:
I sell images on stock sites, and i have seen some of those images offered as public domain! Just because it is offered does not always make it true. A lot of the images on the free sites are stolen. Don't trust the provenance. It is your responsibility to ensure that the images are free to use, and you cannot be sure that you are not using stolen goods.
I have seen and reported stolen pictures used on this site. I am sure the artists got them from 'free' sites.

The Microstock forum http://www.microstockgroup.com/forum/ has a whole section for reporting and tracing stolen artwork.

If you did not create or pay for it you should not use it unless you know the artist. It just is not safe to do so.
If you did pay for it, you should have bought a license that allows you to use the images for resale and multiple reproduction. Such a license is horribly expensive even from microstock sites.

 
 
Hi Norma. I don't use "free" images or stock images.
As I stated, the images I use are my own photos, my own tubes, my own backgrounds and i even make my own textures a lot of the time. I use Photoshop CS4 Paint Shop Pro, DAZ 3D, several plug ins for CS4 and also am learning to use vue for backgrounds
Yes I have used some free textures - from a girlfriend I know never from a free site.
On occasion I have purchased images and as such yes, the license to use them commercially and yes you are right that is not cheap.
But I have never used anything from a free site or stock images for just the reasons you stated.
 
I state this in my notes to the reviewers which is why I was upset over this issue.  
Even more upsetting when I know of someone who scans drawings done by someone else and then uses them and never gives credit to the person who actually drew them!
 
Sorry.... I am just tired of trying to find a way to prove my images are mine when i either take them with my camera or make them myself in my programs. Bit hard to "prove"  when i do it for myself and not for commercial purposes.
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Lisa_131617
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Re: Right to use an image
Reply #13 - Nov 30th, 2010, 7:08am
 
As Rebecca said, Don't get upset over this. The reviewers are just doing their job, that's all. Yes, I'm sure it would be frustrating to have your copyright queried BUT in cases where someone is infringing on copyright images they have no qualms about putting ownership in writing and claiming work is theirs. What a la-de-da process that would be if reviewers just took everyone's word for it - why even question copyright if someone can just say 'yes, they own the rights to use an image' and the reviewers then just take their word for it. No one is questioning your integrity Selina but because there are those that do use images that they have no privilege to use, we must all fall under that microscope. I am sorry for your inconvenience but for your own protections as well, keeping a file of original source imagery, prior to altering, whether it's one of your own photos or an accountable source from elsewhere, such would alleviate the stresses and time of proving image permission to use or original ownership at a later date. All the best with this and again, sorry that by having your work questioned, you feel accused. I truly don't feel that's the case, it is simply part of the review process and ultimately will weed out those who do infringe upon the efforts and talents of others. Cheers, Lisa Charlton
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Mindy
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Re: Right to use an image
Reply #14 - Nov 30th, 2010, 1:21pm
 
Very well put Lisa, Norma and Rebecca.  Thank you.
 
This is a necessary evil, part of the review process to protect all artists and the integrity of products offered on GCU.  Unfortunately all artists do pay the price by "being under the microscope" due to other artists' poor practices.  Even though in the T&Cs artists accept when joining GCU and the Image Rights checkbox for each and every card submitted we continue to receive submissions using 3rd party creative that is being used illegally.  The checkbox seems to be merely a speed bump to some artists.
 
This includes yet is not limited to things like:
stock art, clip art, images of rubber stampings protected by Angel Policies, images of stickers and scrapbooking paper & elements, identifiable photos of people needing model releases, property rights (photos of private property), trademarks, copyrights and the list goes on.
 
Some instances of misuse are unintentional (misinformed/oblivious/ignorant) and some are quite intentional, flat out deception.  But in all cases, this is a business and there is little room for "whoops, I didn't know".  If an artist chooses to use 3rd party creative it is their job and responsibility to know - know the terms, know the limitations, etc.  If they are not willing to do their due diligence then they shouldn't use 3rd party creative.
 
Unfortunately there is no nice way to ask for proof of image/creative rights without offending the creator even couched with pleases and smiley faces.  
 
In your case Selina your first reply to the reviewer was along the lines of "I own this image" which begged further clarification as many artists purchasing art say they "own" it.  So the review team was really trying to pinpoint either where did you buy it from (source and TOU) or is it an original piece of your own work.  Splitting hairs perhaps but it makes a world of difference.
 
You'd be appalled how many times some artists have contested that they have purchased the rights to use an image commercially yet at further inspection of the source and TOU this was clearly not the case.  
 
We want to be clear that GCU is NOT the place to come to sell creative works that are not your own using 3rd party creative illegally.
 
Thus our:
Creative Works Misuse Policy:
http://www.greetingcarduniverse.com/forum/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1203182737
 
Image Rights Acceptance:
http://www.greetingcarduniverse.com/forum/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1232741389
 
REPORT ABUSE:
We have a channel to report misuse of your work or other artists' work.  Simply send an email to: reportabuse@greetingcarduniverse.com    We take these reports quite seriously, are kept anonymous, and expect our community of artists to help us in policing our community for illegal creative.
 
As for artists being treated differently, if the review team has identified that an artist is/has used 3rd party creative illegally then yes, that artist will be watched with a closer eye and will likely be asked more often re: image rights than other artists.  
 
All artists should scour the internet periodically for misuse of their own images/creative in an effort to protect their work.  
 
Thank you for your understanding and cooperation and if you have any suggestions, please share them.
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