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Unprofessional  :( (Read 13253 times)
Mindy
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Re: Unprofessional  :(
Reply #15 - Aug 22nd, 2013, 4:38pm
 
Quote from Sherry_222657 on Aug 22nd, 2013, 2:56pm:
Hi Mindy - Well, the Wiki is good, but really doesn't help much. It's way to general. If we knew exactly why the card was declined we could edit or learn from it so we didn't make the same mistake. When you have no idea why, you can easily do the same thing again. I hear it frequently from artists. We are very frustrated. Just saying look at the Wiki isn't enough. Sorry.

I'm still learning. Fixing cards is a win-win for GCU and the artist. Cards on Hold is very frustrating. You have no chance to correct or fix anything when it's on hold and then declined. That "on hold" drives artists crazy, believe me.

 
I'm confused how this can be too general.  We do not provide a general link to the wiki but to the Submission Guidelines (http://gcuwiki.com/sg.html) of which you should reference the specific guideline reason stated like:
 
COMPOSITION - Unprofessional  
Whether a photograph, illustration or digital art, the creation process must appear to have been applied with a complete understanding of the medium, giving the overall appearance of a professional greeting card. Declines may include, but are not limited to:  distracting elements and/or background, household items, snapshots of people, babies, crowds, buildings, street scenes, knicknacks, and food, photographs from moving vehicles or through windows, and children's art; i.e., messy, distorted and/or poorly drawn art.
 
This coupled with the corresponding content of detailed submission guideline examples shared by Doreen on the GCU Community BLOG, example below, gives the artist more than enough details to identify the issue(s):
http://gcucommunity.com/2013/04/22/dash-of-inspiration-composition-unprofessiona l/
 
If this is not enough supportive information and reference for artists than we have a much bigger problem.  We do not intend on providing additional or more detailed information.  This is much more guidance and assistance than you'll find anywhere else.  I'm confident that GCU has gone above & beyond in helping artists raise the bar, so much so at the expense of other artists who do not require it yet suffer the resulting longer review times.
 
So the proposal on the table is to move toward a truly generic:  No Thank You.  
 
As a note for Cards on Hold, correct you cannot edit a card while it's on hold.  That is intentional.  You should not be changing anything while your card awaits further research or a second set of eyes.  To do so would only be guessing as to what the reason for the delay is.
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« Last Edit: Oct 3rd, 2013, 10:44am by Mindy »  
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Sherry_222657
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Re: Unprofessional  :(
Reply #16 - Aug 22nd, 2013, 4:45pm
 
No, I didn't mean editing while on hold. I understand you can't do that.
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marcia_216173
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Re: Unprofessional  :(
Reply #17 - Aug 26th, 2013, 12:22am
 
is there an "appeal process"?  how?
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Scott_235570
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Re: Unprofessional  :(
Reply #18 - Aug 26th, 2013, 7:15am
 
Figure I'd update    
 
Since my original post asking my "Unprofessional" question, the card has been approved and should be for sale on my site as I type this.  The only changes I made to the image was to retool the lines that made up the heart and during that process I also "tweaked" the thickness of the words.  The changes took 3 minutes and do not reallyyyyyy  alter the look of the card one way or the other.  
 
As a long time humor artist/writer I try to work in various styles so I can appeal to different buyers. Sometimes this is done by drawing the same characters but by simply changing the medium (The Wedding congrats card was drawn digitally).  I can create a different look by illustrating in watercolor, acrylic, colored pencil or ink styles.  Other times I work a softer less cartoony look and sometimes I try out my juvenile style if the copy demands it.  Keeping each image different keeps me entertained as an artist and pushes me out of any "artist rut" I fall into.  Does this "weaken" my overall Scott Nelson brand though?   Not sure.  A topic for another day.
 
As I said, I'm new to GCU and am learning the ins and outs as I move along. To date my cards were either approved as is or after updating the category (something that continues to confuse me).  With the Wedding congrats card though the reply  to my card came back as Unprofessional.  That was that.  No recourse.  Just one word.  Unprofessional!!  Should I forget about the card and move on?  I think not. Smiley  Scratching my head as to why it was booted lead me to my original question and now that is has been approved with a three minute tweak that hardly changed the card I'm actually left with more questions than answers.  Was the original "Shakey line" that matched the characters below so unappealing that it should received the Unprofessional boot?  And would a 3 minute tweak really be all it needed to turn it from unprofessional to a welcomed addition to the GCU store?   A lot of time goes into the creation of cards and truth be told I don't have time to spend pleading out my case if it's rejected.  Is that what they want?  
 
Yet I have not forgotten that this is a P.O.D. site and outside of my time I have not invested any of my own money to warrant this site in the first place.  I am in agreement that if thems the rules-- thems the rules.   Doesn't mean I have to like it but GCU doesn't owe me anything.
 
So with that said, I'm wondering if there has been TALK about GCU implementing a paid for service in which cards are submitted and for a FEE they place them in the best category, use the best key words and tweak the art (boarders perhaps) for you?   This might be the extra money they need to help keep them in the black and fix the % artists receive.
 
Thanks to everyone for your helpful words and thank you to GCU for allowing me to to ask my question in the first place.  
 
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« Last Edit: Aug 26th, 2013, 10:35am by Scott_235570 »  
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Sherry_205423
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Re: Unprofessional  :(
Reply #19 - Aug 26th, 2013, 10:11am
 
I'm glad the problem has been resolved Scott, with a little tweaking, and that your card was approved. Good luck with it.
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Donna_156115
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Re: Unprofessional  :(
Reply #20 - Aug 26th, 2013, 12:54pm
 
Hi Scott,
 I love everything you do ..... Cheesy and I always will... You have talent.
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marcia_216173
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Re: Unprofessional  :(
Reply #21 - Aug 28th, 2013, 8:54pm
 
Quote from Ramelle_149580 on Aug 22nd, 2013, 2:37pm:
Scott, if you ever wish to allow the Forum to see your declined image for editing ideas, just create one in your Private Gallery and then send us the link.
A couple months ago, I had a card declined that I thought was pretty nice. I just sent my private link for it to the Artist's Chatter Forum and I was given lots of good, practical advice. I implemented the changes that fellow artists offered and my card was approved along with an entire series based on that design.
Keep trying. It sounds like a cute card..
Best of luck,
Ramelle

 
Ramelle, or anyone else -
If a card is declined, do you make changes and resubmit an entirely new card, or do you resubmit a declined card.  I guess I was intimidated, but I never resubmitted a declined card...
Thanks,
Marcia
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Ramelle_149580
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Re: Unprofessional  :(
Reply #22 - Aug 28th, 2013, 9:21pm
 
Quote from marcia_216173 on Aug 28th, 2013, 8:54pm:
Quote from Ramelle_149580 on Aug 22nd, 2013, 2:37pm:
Scott, if you ever wish to allow the Forum to see your declined image for editing ideas, just create one in your Private Gallery and then send us the link.
A couple months ago, I had a card declined that I thought was pretty nice. I just sent my private link for it to the Artist's Chatter Forum and I was given lots of good, practical advice. I implemented the changes that fellow artists offered and my card was approved along with an entire series based on that design.
Keep trying. It sounds like a cute card..
Best of luck,
Ramelle


Ramelle, or anyone else -
If a card is declined, do you make changes and resubmit an entirely new card, or do you resubmit a declined card.  I guess I was intimidated, but I never resubmitted a declined card...
Thanks,
Marcia

 
Hmm . . . I'm trying to remember just how I went about it. I think I had originally requested it to be Fast Tracked because it was first in a series. Because a Fast Tracked card will be reviewed within days and not weeks, I could easily submit a new card and not have had wasted six weeks (or twice six weeks) waiting for an approval or decline.
Another way to get input on a declined card is to submit it to the Critique Clinic. You'll get good, solid advice from those in the know.
Good luck!
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Barbara_239062
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Re: Unprofessional  :(
Reply #23 - Aug 29th, 2013, 9:55am
 
I received my first rejection/decline today.  I did a Fast Track for a series and I received the email that the photo was unprofessional in quality.  The first rejection kinda stings a bit.  But back to the drawing board!
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Mindy
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Re: Unprofessional  :(
Reply #24 - Aug 29th, 2013, 3:03pm
 
Quote from Scott_235570 on Aug 26th, 2013, 7:15am:
Figure I'd update    

Since my original post asking my "Unprofessional" question, the card has been approved and should be for sale on my site as I type this.  The only changes I made to the image was to retool the lines that made up the heart and during that process I also "tweaked" the thickness of the words.  The changes took 3 minutes and do not reallyyyyyy  alter the look of the card one way or the other.

As a long time humor artist/writer I try to work in various styles so I can appeal to different buyers. Sometimes this is done by drawing the same characters but by simply changing the medium (The Wedding congrats card was drawn digitally).  I can create a different look by illustrating in watercolor, acrylic, colored pencil or ink styles.  Other times I work a softer less cartoony look and sometimes I try out my juvenile style if the copy demands it.  Keeping each image different keeps me entertained as an artist and pushes me out of any "artist rut" I fall into.  Does this "weaken" my overall Scott Nelson brand though?   Not sure.  A topic for another day.

As I said, I'm new to GCU and am learning the ins and outs as I move along. To date my cards were either approved as is or after updating the category (something that continues to confuse me).  With the Wedding congrats card though the reply  to my card came back as Unprofessional.  That was that.  No recourse.  Just one word.  Unprofessional!!  Should I forget about the card and move on?  I think not. Smiley  Scratching my head as to why it was booted lead me to my original question and now that is has been approved with a three minute tweak that hardly changed the card I'm actually left with more questions than answers.  Was the original "Shakey line" that matched the characters below so unappealing that it should received the Unprofessional boot?  And would a 3 minute tweak really be all it needed to turn it from unprofessional to a welcomed addition to the GCU store?   A lot of time goes into the creation of cards and truth be told I don't have time to spend pleading out my case if it's rejected.  Is that what they want?

Yet I have not forgotten that this is a P.O.D. site and outside of my time I have not invested any of my own money to warrant this site in the first place.  I am in agreement that if thems the rules-- thems the rules.   Doesn't mean I have to like it but GCU doesn't owe me anything.

So with that said, I'm wondering if there has been TALK about GCU implementing a paid for service in which cards are submitted and for a FEE they place them in the best category, use the best key words and tweak the art (boarders perhaps) for you?   This might be the extra money they need to help keep them in the black and fix the % artists receive.

Thanks to everyone for your helpful words and thank you to GCU for allowing me to to ask my question in the first place.


Hi Scott,
Thanks for your quick edits and rounding out your experience here.  
 
Yes, the difference is made in the small details.    Your quick fix on the "shakey line" made the difference.
 
A few thoughts ...
1. Recreate - We do not encourage artists to plead their case on declined cards.  A declined card can be recreated and submitted if you like.  If so this is best done after you have a clear understanding what the issue for the decline was so you can edit accordingly.  Be sure to include a Note to Reviewer with the new submission like: based on declined card pid#121212.   We do not allow declined cards to simply be resubmitted in hopes for a different opinion.  This is a waste of time for reviewers and other waiting artists.  
 
2. Reason Details - although it seems like only one word "unprofessional" or "perspective" for example each reason is explained in detail via the link provided to the wiki Submission Guidelines.  We assume that artists use that link to find out more.  Maybe not.  Do artists not refer to the full description of the submission guidelines to understand more?  If I were an artist I'd have this real handy, like taped to my forehead  Wink
http://gcuwiki.com/sg.html
 
3. Terminology - "Unprofessional" it seems to put artists on the defensive, more so than any other reason used.  Years ago we used to "Reject" cards but now "Decline" them.  It's the same thing but if artists would like to suggest a more palatable term that means the same thing we are happy to consider it.  
 
4. We've thrown out a few times the idea of a general decline - No Thank You.  I've heard no feedback on that concept (unless its gone overlooked).
 
5. Paid Service - tell me more.  Do you mean artists paying for their storefronts?
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Mindy
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Re: Unprofessional  :(
Reply #25 - Aug 29th, 2013, 3:07pm
 
Quote from marcia_216173 on Aug 28th, 2013, 8:54pm:
Quote from Ramelle_149580 on Aug 22nd, 2013, 2:37pm:
Scott, if you ever wish to allow the Forum to see your declined image for editing ideas, just create one in your Private Gallery and then send us the link.
A couple months ago, I had a card declined that I thought was pretty nice. I just sent my private link for it to the Artist's Chatter Forum and I was given lots of good, practical advice. I implemented the changes that fellow artists offered and my card was approved along with an entire series based on that design.
Keep trying. It sounds like a cute card..
Best of luck,
Ramelle


Ramelle, or anyone else -
If a card is declined, do you make changes and resubmit an entirely new card, or do you resubmit a declined card.  I guess I was intimidated, but I never resubmitted a declined card...
Thanks,
Marcia

 
Specific to our question but also asked by Scott on declined cards.  There is no appeal process.
 
I can suggest:
Recreate - We do not encourage artists to plead their case on declined cards.  A declined card can be recreated and submitted if you like.  If so this is best done after you have a clear understanding what the issue for the decline was so you can edit accordingly.  Be sure to include a Note to Reviewer with the new submission like: based on declined card pid#121212.   We do not allow declined cards to simply be resubmitted in hopes for a different opinion.  This is a waste of time for reviewers and other waiting artists.    
 
Great advice given by Ramelle (thanks!) is to utilize the Critique Clinic which is open every Fri - Sun for some good input before you recreate your card:
http://gcucommunity.com/2013/08/23/critique-clinic-august-23-25-2013/
 
 
Hope that helps!
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Sherry_222657
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Re: Unprofessional  :(
Reply #26 - Aug 29th, 2013, 5:17pm
 
Mindy, how about "UNSUITABLE" instead of unprofessional. I don't think that would be quite as offensive to artists. Many are professionals and that really upsets them. Unsuitable basically would mean it's not right for Greeting Card Universe, not that their card was created badly.
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Steppeland_231500
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Re: Unprofessional  :(
Reply #27 - Aug 30th, 2013, 2:36am
 
Quote from Mindy on Aug 29th, 2013, 3:03pm:

4. We've thrown out a few times the idea of a general decline - No Thank You.  I've heard no feedback on that concept (unless its gone overlooked).

 
 
Hi Mindy, yes indeed, I've read a few times that you mentioned this, but to be honest, I think I don't get exactly what you mean with it, so that's why I didn't reply to it yet ... (and while I read nearly every post in the forums, I didn't see anybody else's reply to it either)
 
If with general decline 'No thank you' , you would mean that no further explanation would be given as to why a card is declined, then that wouldn't help me at all!
I always read carefully the reasons given with every decline I got this far. And whether I agree with the reviewer's view on it or not, it does help me to understand the reviewer's mindset. And that, given more time and experience, will surely help me in the future to know exactly, even ahead of time, which of my images / designs may be approved, and which don't even make a chance.  
While I usually don't take a decline personally, but rather find it 'interesting' as for the reasons given, and therefore 'unsuitable' for GCU, like Sherry suggested - a general decline 'no thank you' would inevitably lead to my questioning why.  
And although I not always immediately agree with the feedback I receive from the reviewers, most of the times, when having a second look at it, I must admit they are right. Following their advise, esp. with regard to editing, usually ends up in me being very happy with a better image. So I'm learning a lot from all the feed back I receive, and really appreciate the reviewers taking the time to explain and link to the Wiki for further clarification.  
Also, the few times I really didn't agree, my experience showed that open communication about it, giving my own view, or asking further questions *always* helped to come to a good solution, and mutual agreement!  
 
Therefore, I really want to thank each and every one of the reviewers, including and not in the least reviewer 443  (just let it be said - I know there are other opinions too) . I have really good experiences with each and every one, and am thankful for all that I am learning thanks to the review process. Even if, in the end, I wouldn't sell a single card on GCU, this learning experience makes as well the long waiting times before review, as all the work I've put into this till now, more than worthwhile.  
 
So thank you, Mindy, to you and the other staff members too, for all the effort put into it to try and make this work!  
 
As for me, if this indeed is what you meant with 'general decline', I would say... : 'No, thank you'  Wink
 
Steppeland
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Steppeland - Photography and Card Design/Fotografie en Kaart Ontwerp.:
http://www.greetingcarduniverse.com/steppeland
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Kathleen_226662
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Re: Unprofessional  :(
Reply #28 - Aug 30th, 2013, 11:38am
 
Sherry's comment: "UNSUITABLE" instead of unprofessional. I don't think that would be quite as offensive to artists.  
 
Yes, that is better.
 
I wonder if a card is declined sometimes because the photo won't reproduce well even though it looks good on the screen. This is similar to Lar's remark in another forum concerning his beautiful art which doesn't reproduce well on GCU's equipment.
 
Since GCU hears customer complaints/concerns in addition to our issues, it must factor in that knowledge when accepting or declining a design.
 
And Mindy, please, continue to include team comments instead of a simple decline. It is a great help in the long run.
 
Thank you.
 
 
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Mindy
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Re: Unprofessional  :(
Reply #29 - Aug 30th, 2013, 11:42am
 
Quote from Steppeland_231500 on Aug 30th, 2013, 2:36am:
Quote from Mindy on Aug 29th, 2013, 3:03pm:

4. We've thrown out a few times the idea of a general decline - No Thank You.  I've heard no feedback on that concept (unless its gone overlooked).



Hi Mindy, yes indeed, I've read a few times that you mentioned this, but to be honest, I think I don't get exactly what you mean with it, so that's why I didn't reply to it yet ... (and while I read nearly every post in the forums, I didn't see anybody else's reply to it either)

If with general decline 'No thank you' , you would mean that no further explanation would be given as to why a card is declined, then that wouldn't help me at all!
I always read carefully the reasons given with every decline I got this far. And whether I agree with the reviewer's view on it or not, it does help me to understand the reviewer's mindset. And that, given more time and experience, will surely help me in the future to know exactly, even ahead of time, which of my images / designs may be approved, and which don't even make a chance.
While I usually don't take a decline personally, but rather find it 'interesting' as for the reasons given, and therefore 'unsuitable' for GCU, like Sherry suggested - a general decline 'no thank you' would inevitably lead to my questioning why.
And although I not always immediately agree with the feedback I receive from the reviewers, most of the times, when having a second look at it, I must admit they are right. Following their advise, esp. with regard to editing, usually ends up in me being very happy with a better image. So I'm learning a lot from all the feed back I receive, and really appreciate the reviewers taking the time to explain and link to the Wiki for further clarification.
Also, the few times I really didn't agree, my experience showed that open communication about it, giving my own view, or asking further questions *always* helped to come to a good solution, and mutual agreement!

Therefore, I really want to thank each and every one of the reviewers, including and not in the least reviewer 443  (just let it be said - I know there are other opinions too) . I have really good experiences with each and every one, and am thankful for all that I am learning thanks to the review process. Even if, in the end, I wouldn't sell a single card on GCU, this learning experience makes as well the long waiting times before review, as all the work I've put into this till now, more than worthwhile.

So thank you, Mindy, to you and the other staff members too, for all the effort put into it to try and make this work!

As for me, if this indeed is what you meant with 'general decline', I would say... : 'No, thank you'  Wink

Steppeland

 
Hi Steppeland,
Thank you for your thoughtful reply and yes, that is exactly what I meant.  
 
You've shared that you see the benefits of the detailed review feedback and are using it constructively to improve the cards in question and your future submissions.  That's exactly our intent, great job and thank you!   Cheesy  Unfortunately not all artists operate this way.    
 
I'll take it that you vote for the "Unsuitable" term vs "Unprofessional" as Sherry's suggested.
 
Thank you again for your feedback, it is very helpful.  Smiley  ... and your appreciation, it is valued.   Smiley
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