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Utterly confused about review process (Read 2777 times)
Donna_137698
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Re: Utterly confused about review process
Reply #15 - Dec 29th, 2011, 12:24pm
 
Norma, if I had anything recently submitted and declined, I would be happy to share them.  But, I haven't loaded anything new here in months.
 
I don't know how Judy feels - maybe she will find it fit to share her declined image with us.  Perhaps we can start a new off this list forum where we can directly upload images to because once they are declined here, they are no longer visible.
 
I would be happy to utilize such a place and share if we all can learn something.  
 
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Mindy
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Re: Utterly confused about review process
Reply #16 - Dec 29th, 2011, 2:42pm
 
Quote from Donna_137698 on Dec 29th, 2011, 12:06pm:
Mindy

It's rather confusing when your reviewers make a mistake in judgment and APPROVED Judy's first submissions of cards with a particular image then the next set is later declined, and after Judy requests further insight, this results in ALL of them being declined.  What is that saying about this whole process and the reviewers?  Granted, we are all human beings, but the issue remains that some of us are struggling to understand so we can up our own bars which I think you don't quite understand and take as us being argumentative.  I can't speak for others, but my barrage of questions and rather upset comments are all coming from the continuing frustration with the process.  I get a strong feeling that some of us can say what's on our minds and others cannot.  This new review system is time consuming - and if your reviewers aren't up to snuff on what they are supposed to be doing and make a mistake, it's costing a great deal of time and adding to the confusion - so I happen to think it a valid question for Judy to ask what qualifications allows them to be reviewers.  I would think that the first reviewer would have caught those issues you claim make her cards not marketable.  Aren't they being trained or are they not professional artists who have a good grasp of greeting card design and are fully aware of GCU's expectations at this point in time?  I question that too because if such things are happening, how will I really come to grips with what GCU wants?

As I've said numerous times over, I learn by mistakes made - either by myself or others.  I think Judy - and heck, if it were me and I got approvals with the all the said issues you point out swimming by the first time around, I'd be sadly mistaken that the cards were marketable in the first place.  So, Mindy - I really don't think you need to take the constant asking of questions as anything more than our attempting to get a tiny toehold on what we are and are not doing right with regards to YOUR expectations at this point.  

EDIT - let me clarify.  Mindy, you made a rather hard handed comment that Judy would be jumping for joy had her cards been approved.  Someone else asked about having only one image submitted, letting it go through the process, and then tacking on some sort of comment to speed up the review of future submissions using the same card.  Now, I agree that it seems to be pot luck whether or not you get a good review or not.  If her card went through and the rest were allowed through, then in essence, NONE are marketable.  So, look at the time wasted in having Judy's first ones approved and then the rest declined resulting in ALL declined.  It seems like an awful lot of work and a roll of the dice as to what the reviewer sees on that particular day.

You've commented on qualifications of us artists and that we SHOULD KNOW what we are doing.  Well, shouldn't the reviewers?  I'm taking this as a case in point that your reviewer made a big time mistake interpreting the perspective of the image and let it go while someone else saw fit to decline it - so I find your comment that Judy would be jumping for joy rather disrespectful - and I'm not even on the receiving end of it.  Considering the fact that GCU has upped the bar, I too will jump for joy for ANY submission that gets approved at this point - and I think I'd be equally aggravated if further submissions using the same image were later declined.  Why not step into our shoes for once - we are being asked to be professional, do our research, learn all we can, and provide you with professional salable cards, then isn't it understandable as to why we get our panties in a bunch when a reviewer makes a mistake that causes confusion?  When one "thinks" one has things going, then have it taken away, stand in our shoes and embrace our confusion before replying  Wink

 
No disrespect intended.  
 
All cards in question were submitted at the same time.  Not one approved as a sample and future same image submissions to follow after the green light.  
 
The confusion comes from 2 different reviewers reviewing the same cards in a collection which is clearly a part of the process we need to address for consistency's sake.  As for the luck of the draw as to which reviewer you get, yes it does depend on who you get ... therein lies the rub, the inherent subjectivity, which we believe the upcoming Submission Guidelines will attempt to remedy.
 
And here is the image in question hoping Judy does not mind us putting a visual to this thread:
 
removed * my apologies *
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Donna_137698
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Re: Utterly confused about review process
Reply #17 - Dec 29th, 2011, 2:59pm
 
Mindy,
 
Why is this image declined?  I honestly see no problem with it... perhaps this is exactly as it appears in the landscape and there is nothing one can do to fix that.  The building might have settled and therefore is leaning.  Sure, she could tilt the frame but then that messes with the arch.  So, yet again, I'm confused.  Thinking of the Leaning Tower of Pisa here... you certainly are not going to straighten it out for sake of the rest of the landscape.  Call me wrong, but there is perspective that pulls a person into the frame by way of the stone walkway.  The building is tilted.  So what?  It might be like that in real life.  Does one change what is actually there to make a greeting card?  
 
If she were to "fix" this image, what is suggested?  Cutting out the arch altogether which may or may not be possible??  Tilting the entire frame which would make the path look weird.
 
I'm also thinking of something Doreen said when it comes to wildlife photography - you cannot necessarily change the environment the animal/plant is residing in but do one's best to make a good image with what it there... or something of the like... I forget her exact words to me when I posted a backyard pic of wild turkeys for a Thanksgiving card.  
 
Perhaps the pro photographers can offer some advice to this weary confused soul?
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Judy_139270
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Re: Utterly confused about review process
Reply #18 - Dec 29th, 2011, 3:06pm
 
Mindy
 
Judy does mind - and minds VERY MUCH!
 
I'd have thought it would have been clear from this thread and others that, as artists, we feel that declined images should only be used for demonstration purposes WITH THE ARTIST'S PERMISSION!
 
I hope you will remove it because, as Donna's comments show, without more information about the tiny churches in the mountains of Wales, that seem to defy gravity and perspective, it doesn't make any sense.
 
Also, the theme of this thread was the reviewers' inconsistency, not my submission.
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Donna_137698
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Re: Utterly confused about review process
Reply #19 - Dec 29th, 2011, 3:22pm
 
Judy, I know you are upset but I'm glad to get a chance to see this image because the decline makes absolutely no sense to me at all...
 
To make light of a very upsetting situation, I now have this mental picture of you going back there, putting a jack under the tilted building just so you can shoot another picture of this church in a straighter position ignoring the fact that the landscape is most likely exactly as you photographed it - hilly and tilted and what not.
 
Wonder if this was spelled out in Artist Notes if this decline would have occurred at all if an explanation of the hilly landscape of Wales actually looks this way.  Mindy, any insight on that if the Artist Notes explained this?
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Judy_139270
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Re: Utterly confused about review process
Reply #20 - Dec 29th, 2011, 3:37pm
 
Thank you, Mindy.
 
I would hate to see this thread turn into a critique of my image when it was intended to draw attention to  the inconsistency of the reviews and how that makes submitting so stressful as well as impossible to learn from them.
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