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Utterly confused about review process (Read 2760 times)
Judy_139270
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Utterly confused about review process
Dec 23rd, 2011, 11:54am
 
I recently submitted 11 Easter Cards, identical except that each has the greeting in a different language.
 
The first 3 were approved yesterday but today the remaining 8 were declined by a different reviewer.
 
This does not make sense and in no way helps us to 'improve' our work which is what some people are claiming that the new standards are doing.
 
It does almost always seem to be the same reviewer who 'declines' and I wonder whether s/he has any sense at all as to what makes an attractive greeting card.
 
I'm sorry to have to ask this at such a time, but I really do think someone needs to look into this. The declined cards are PID: 888474 onwards and the approved ones are 888467- 69 - 71.
 
Thank you.
 
 
 
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Mindy
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Re: Utterly confused about review process
Reply #1 - Dec 23rd, 2011, 3:29pm
 
We'll have another reviewer give these cards their 3rd look.
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Donna_137698
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Re: Utterly confused about review process
Reply #2 - Dec 23rd, 2011, 3:50pm
 
Judy, I do hope you get this resolved.
 
Mindy, this is why I too am having to take a step back from posting further submissions here.  I so want to improve in my designing efforts, but until this issue is dealt with (the consistency with review and yes I know you are working on this), I don't feel it worth my time to add more work here.  
 
Please keep us posted - I really have enjoyed my time with GCU and would like at some point to get back here.
 
Happy holidays to you all...
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Rebecca_140932
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Re: Utterly confused about review process
Reply #3 - Dec 23rd, 2011, 4:04pm
 
This is exactly the kind of thing I have been talking about. Things just don't make sense around here.  Huh
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Rosalie_136698
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Re: Utterly confused about review process
Reply #4 - Dec 23rd, 2011, 4:20pm
 
I have hardly posted any lately.  sometimes I feel that if it isn't like a H________ card, it isn't going to pass review.    Rosie Cards
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Elizabeth_137795
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Re: Utterly confused about review process
Reply #5 - Dec 23rd, 2011, 4:55pm
 
I had the same thing happen last week. I submitted two cards at the same time, but different reviewers looked at them. One was okay....the other sent back.
 
I thought reviewers looked at cards in batches from an artist...especially if the image was the same.
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Judy_139270
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Re: Utterly confused about review process
Reply #6 - Dec 23rd, 2011, 5:04pm
 
What a farce - it would almost be funny if I weren't so angry at the waste of my time! All of the cards have now been declined.  
 
So what of the opinion of the reviewer who approved the first three - does his/her opinion not count? It seems likely to me that the first reviewer probably had a better eye for what a customer would find appealing, rather than behaving like a judge in a photographic competition!
 
A few weeks ago, on another thread, someone asked about the qualifications of the reviewers and whether they had any qualification in marketing. I think that was a very pertinent question but unfortunately it didn't receive an answer.
 
It seems to me that, if the reviewers are just intent on nitpicking about photographic technicalities rather than taking the 'whole picture' and its appeal to customers into account, GCU is going to end up with some pretty boring cards and I am wasting my time here!  
 
More worrying yet is that it seems as if these *photographic* standards were applied to one of my handpainted paper collages, and I had the impression from the comments that the reviewer didn't have the first idea of what a collage is all about.
 
I'm not in the least bit bothered by the 'rejection' aspect of this but I do object to having my time wasted, especially as I suggested a way that this 'cull'could have been achieved more fairly and transparently and without the cost of employing the reviewers to make their apparently rather arbitrary decisions.
 
The irony is that if I had followed the advice given in another thread and just uploaded the first card and waited for it to be approved before uploading the rest of them, with a note to the reviewer to say that the design had been approved - if I'd gone through that process, the chances are that all of these cards would have been approved.  
 
On the other hand, it would have been a matter of pure chance which of the reviewers got to see that first card so that might not have helped. Who knows?
 
With so much left to chance in the review process and a lot of things still very unclear, the whole operation has become even more fraught with anxiety than it was previously  - and I've known people actually afraid of GCU's review process, even before this latest stage. And I value my time so, sadly, I shall be thinking very carefully about whether I can afford to continue to waste my time in the New Year or whether to put it to more profitable use.
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Donna_137698
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Re: Utterly confused about review process
Reply #7 - Dec 23rd, 2011, 5:41pm
 
quite honestly, I'd like to know if it is common practice to have the company's artists also doing double duty as reviewers?  At one time I thought I would have liked to help with such a job, but admittedly I'm not educated enough to do so - nor do I now feel it good to have my peers playing around with my cards.  Putting them up for critiques on the Critique Forum is one thing to get help from others - but something seems amiss with our fellow artists also being paid to approve or decline our cards.
 
Is this common practice in all these sorts of business entities (like "H" and other such greeting card companies and stock agency companies)?  Or are the artists paid as artists with a completely separate staff of reviewers who are NOT submitting artists?
 
Just curious...
 
and I really can't help but think with these new guidelines if GCU really isn't requiring artists to be professionally trained - yeah, beating that dead horse again but I can't seem to wrap my head around the idea of being able to reach the new bar considering the new requirements.  I can't help but feel that it really is a requirement to be professionally trained and why I need to step back until I feel I have the "big guns" of skills and experience to be able to submit here.  
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Randall_140313
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Re: Utterly confused about review process
Reply #8 - Dec 23rd, 2011, 8:37pm
 
Yes, very frustrating!  They'll reference other cards that you should eximplify, like that's what we want to do, present something someone already has so we can compete with those designs.  I don't think they really have a bar, it's actually more like a guessing game.  I know what a professional photo is, but have no idea what a greeting card is and probably don't belong here anymore myself.  Some people are doing OK I guess at getting their stuff approved, but for me it is a total waste of time.  I was doing it mostly because it was fun, but now with GCU being happy they have enough cards and making that bar at whatever height the reviewers choose, we don't know how high to jump anymore.
 
Anyway, like Mindy said, it's a learning curve and right now GCU is loaded with working out the bugs.  So all we can do is try to improve to the best of our ability, submit what we do and take it or leave it until everything settles in.   I don't know where that bar is and if it's any consolation, don't think all the reviewers are using the same bar anyway, so it is what it is, chaos for now!
 
Just don't give up, hang in there and things will work out.  I've got my fingers crossed!
 
Best always, Randy
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Norma_133903
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Re: Utterly confused about review process
Reply #9 - Dec 24th, 2011, 2:08am
 
It is common for submitters to also be reviewers on stock agencies. I was a reviewer on an agency for a couple of years.
I have no problem with other artists reviewing cards. They are monitored by GCU, and any problems are dealt with by Mindy and a second or even third review. I think it is better to have someone who shares our hopes and problems checking our cards, as long as they are not reviewing their own cards!
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Donna_137698
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Re: Utterly confused about review process
Reply #10 - Dec 24th, 2011, 6:02am
 
Randy
 
I admire you still trying to be that ray of Sunshine for all of us.  Your cards have every right to be on display, but I agree with you - greeting card designers must be entirely different kinds of beasts.
 
I simply don't feel it worth my time to submit here until I know that everyone is on the same page.  I guess it should be said that a select few are settled in and never have to worry while the rest of us go on scratching our heads wondering what the heck is going on - I haven't a clue what I should be shooting for - or if I already have reached it since I can't seem to get a straight answer anywhere if I'm on target or not and should just keep doing what I'm doing.
 
It absolutely is what it is but talk about wasting time with this process at the moment.  Yes, I'm trying to be hopeful as well - I just don't have the time to waste struggling to make cards I think are just as good as any of the cards I look at here and elsewhere.  I also don't think we all should be stuck into cookie cutter designing either - unless that really is what GCU wants (and in which case, I hope they come forth just saying so).  I'm doing what I can elsewhere and that is what that is without the incredible hassle.  If I make a sale, fine - if not, I had fun in actually being able to create without feeling like a heel once I hit the submission button.
 
Norma, thank you for the input regarding reviewers also being fellow artists.  
 
Judy, did you get a reason as to why your original cards are now rejected?  What the heck is up with that???  I simply DON'T get it!!!  First you get a couple through this more rigorous process, have the next set rejected, now ALL are rejected?  Ala Whoopie Goldberg - "WHAT THE H*LL??"
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Bettie__142065
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Re: Utterly confused about review process
Reply #11 - Dec 24th, 2011, 10:30am
 
Well, I am glad SOMEBODY got someone's attention. If you who read my posts back in November about my 3 fast tracked being flatly declined by the same reviewer, and that when I wrote the reviewer he/she.was a bit rude, I felt. However, I wrote to ADMIN,and the last few times have been much better... even if reviewed by that reviewer.  
Betti
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Mindy
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Re: Utterly confused about review process
Reply #12 - Dec 28th, 2011, 4:02pm
 
Quote from Judy_139270 on Dec 23rd, 2011, 5:04pm:
What a farce - it would almost be funny if I weren't so angry at the waste of my time! All of the cards have now been declined.

So what of the opinion of the reviewer who approved the first three - does his/her opinion not count? It seems likely to me that the first reviewer probably had a better eye for what a customer would find appealing, rather than behaving like a judge in a photographic competition!

A few weeks ago, on another thread, someone asked about the qualifications of the reviewers and whether they had any qualification in marketing. I think that was a very pertinent question but unfortunately it didn't receive an answer.

It seems to me that, if the reviewers are just intent on nitpicking about photographic technicalities rather than taking the 'whole picture' and its appeal to customers into account, GCU is going to end up with some pretty boring cards and I am wasting my time here!

More worrying yet is that it seems as if these *photographic* standards were applied to one of my handpainted paper collages, and I had the impression from the comments that the reviewer didn't have the first idea of what a collage is all about.

I'm not in the least bit bothered by the 'rejection' aspect of this but I do object to having my time wasted, especially as I suggested a way that this 'cull'could have been achieved more fairly and transparently and without the cost of employing the reviewers to make their apparently rather arbitrary decisions.

The irony is that if I had followed the advice given in another thread and just uploaded the first card and waited for it to be approved before uploading the rest of them, with a note to the reviewer to say that the design had been approved - if I'd gone through that process, the chances are that all of these cards would have been approved.

On the other hand, it would have been a matter of pure chance which of the reviewers got to see that first card so that might not have helped. Who knows?

With so much left to chance in the review process and a lot of things still very unclear, the whole operation has become even more fraught with anxiety than it was previously  - and I've known people actually afraid of GCU's review process, even before this latest stage. And I value my time so, sadly, I shall be thinking very carefully about whether I can afford to continue to waste my time in the New Year or whether to put it to more profitable use.

 
(Donna )... Sorry I meant Judy,
The balance of your cards were declined upon the additional review that you requested.  After reviewing the image and the reviewers' comments below I also agree with their decision.
 
We understand that this is a true representation of the view, but the slanted angle makes the building seem as though it's about the slide off the edge of the card. We further understand that using the straightening tool in your image manipulation program will result in an odd look for the archway. There is also better focus on the archway than the scene beyond, which should be the focal point of the image.
 
we concur with the reasons stated in the declines of the like images in this collection. Albeit the subject matter is quite pretty this image has some perspective and focus issues. If you are able to edit with a different image that resolves these issues of perspective and focus we'd be happy to reset the collection as Returned for Edits for you vs declined. Please let us know and thank you for your understanding.
 
You find the declines a farce, however I suspect had they been approved you'd cheer with joy and adulation.
 
As for your question about the review team's qualifications I have no intent on sharing their resumes if that is what you are asking for.  GCU has chosen them for this task and deems them valuable and qualified.
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Donna_137698
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Re: Utterly confused about review process
Reply #13 - Dec 29th, 2011, 12:06pm
 
Mindy
 
It's rather confusing when your reviewers make a mistake in judgment and APPROVED Judy's first submissions of cards with a particular image then the next set is later declined, and after Judy requests further insight, this results in ALL of them being declined.  What is that saying about this whole process and the reviewers?  Granted, we are all human beings, but the issue remains that some of us are struggling to understand so we can up our own bars which I think you don't quite understand and take as us being argumentative.  I can't speak for others, but my barrage of questions and rather upset comments are all coming from the continuing frustration with the process.  I get a strong feeling that some of us can say what's on our minds and others cannot.  This new review system is time consuming - and if your reviewers aren't up to snuff on what they are supposed to be doing and make a mistake, it's costing a great deal of time and adding to the confusion - so I happen to think it a valid question for Judy to ask what qualifications allows them to be reviewers.  I would think that the first reviewer would have caught those issues you claim make her cards not marketable.  Aren't they being trained or are they not professional artists who have a good grasp of greeting card design and are fully aware of GCU's expectations at this point in time?  I question that too because if such things are happening, how will I really come to grips with what GCU wants?
 
As I've said numerous times over, I learn by mistakes made - either by myself or others.  I think Judy - and heck, if it were me and I got approvals with the all the said issues you point out swimming by the first time around, I'd be sadly mistaken that the cards were marketable in the first place.  So, Mindy - I really don't think you need to take the constant asking of questions as anything more than our attempting to get a tiny toehold on what we are and are not doing right with regards to YOUR expectations at this point.  
 
EDIT - let me clarify.  Mindy, you made a rather hard handed comment that Judy would be jumping for joy had her cards been approved.  Someone else asked about having only one image submitted, letting it go through the process, and then tacking on some sort of comment to speed up the review of future submissions using the same card.  Now, I agree that it seems to be pot luck whether or not you get a good review or not.  If her card went through and the rest were allowed through, then in essence, NONE are marketable.  So, look at the time wasted in having Judy's first ones approved and then the rest declined resulting in ALL declined.  It seems like an awful lot of work and a roll of the dice as to what the reviewer sees on that particular day.
 
You've commented on qualifications of us artists and that we SHOULD KNOW what we are doing.  Well, shouldn't the reviewers?  I'm taking this as a case in point that your reviewer made a big time mistake interpreting the perspective of the image and let it go while someone else saw fit to decline it - so I find your comment that Judy would be jumping for joy rather disrespectful - and I'm not even on the receiving end of it.  Considering the fact that GCU has upped the bar, I too will jump for joy for ANY submission that gets approved at this point - and I think I'd be equally aggravated if further submissions using the same image were later declined.  Why not step into our shoes for once - we are being asked to be professional, do our research, learn all we can, and provide you with professional salable cards, then isn't it understandable as to why we get our panties in a bunch when a reviewer makes a mistake that causes confusion?  When one "thinks" one has things going, then have it taken away, stand in our shoes and embrace our confusion before replying  Wink
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Norma_133903
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Re: Utterly confused about review process
Reply #14 - Dec 29th, 2011, 12:17pm
 
I don't think anybody can learn anything from these complaints unless they can see the images involved. Would you be prepared to show them to us? Maybe we need a separate thread showing rejected images (with the artists' consent of course). We can then see the problems and learn together.
I know they can be posted on the blog, but I think we need this here, with the designs collected together.
Would any artist be prepared to open such a thread?
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