someone please clarify for once and for all, are ONLY pro level artists allowed on this site now?  I obviously missed something in a big way if so.  I was never given this impression and now I'm feeling like this is where it's going.  People keep saying they are self-taught this or that - why is Judy being put into question like this?  Does this mean that I can't try out illustration after teaching myself?  I've been a "photographer" since I could first hold a camera.  I might not have fine-tuned skills, so does this also mean that ALL my images are just snapshots as well?
 
Doreen, please explain... I've always valued your opinion and advice, but this statement to Judy seems a tad cruel and only said to be hurtful.  I've been struggling enough with feeling like I can be successful here.

What I should perhaps have said, Doreen, is that I am not a professional photographer; I have had no training in photography.
 
But I see no reason why that should prevent me offering photographs that I take as greeting cards. In fact I have been surprised to see how well my photos have been received as greeting cards, selling almost as well as my pen and wash illustrations.
 
As far as I'm concerned, what counts is the image and whether the buying public likes it enough to buy it. I don't think it matters one jot whether it is a painting, an illustration, a digital artwork or a photograph, it's the attractiveness of the image that matters.  
 
Likewise, I believe that the term 'professional' is irrelevant when it comes to what sells, as many artists and photographers have proved.  
 
And I would be curious to hear your definition of a 'snapshot'.

[quote author=Donna_137698 link=1320330310/15#28 date=1321822695]Quote from Donna_137698 on Nov 18^th, 2011, 4:57pm:

 
Hi, Donna,
 
I just wanted to clarify something that has been mentioned a few times in this discussion and in a couple of other discussion here in the GCU forum, not necessarily by you, specifically, but I wanted to reassure you (and anyone else who is reading) that anyone who is logged into GCU (has an account) can rate and comment on any card.
 
I'm not sure where the notion that "only other artists" can comment on cards came from.
 
I think that there are many kind artists here at GCU who want to offer some support for a design, or just say, "Wow!  That's nice!" and the card comments is the way that they choose to do it.
 
I am both an artist here and a regular old shopper.
 
For me, I try to remember to make a comment on every card that I buy from another artist here at GCU.  Why?  I think that most artists really appreciate getting the feedback, knowing that one of their designs was just right for my friend's birthday, or sympathy for the loss of a father.  (And you might be wondering why I buy other artist's cards when I have so many?  In short, there are designs and categories that I don't do, but others do very well, so why not buy from someone who says it and illustrates it better than I do?)
 
What I think happens here is that very few customers -- who are not also artists -- ever think to say a kind word about a card.  This is general to customer service.  I've worked with customers in some capacity my entire career life, and I can tell you that getting anything other than a thank you is a big deal.  People aren't wired that way.    Just look at the number of testimonials that get posted on the home page every day; it's very few when you consider how many cards get sold on this site every day.
 
A bit long-winded, perhaps, but my 2-cents!
 
And I apologize for taking this post OT, but it seemed like a good time to chime in.
 
Thanks!
 
Penny

Quote from Donna_137698 on Nov 20^th, 2011, 1:10pm:

 
Donna, before I read any other comments that followed this one I first want to clarify that I absolutely DID NOT insinuate anything about professional photographers.  So please don't take offense to something that you are assuming I meant - I would never suggest such a thing.  Though I am trained in photography, I have no official training in any other medium, therefore sincerely appreciate the ability to self-teach any art form.  I was using a term Judy used and simply asking her a question ... I will now go read the rest of the story  

Doreen, thank you for your offer of a 'critique' but I'm afraid your offer suggests to me that you have completely missed the point of my original post and the reason why I posted my photograph.  
 
Maybe I didn't make myself clear?  
 
(I know you will disagree with this and it's not to do with my original post, just my own point of view, but I find the idea of other people 'helping' an artist to 'improv' through a 'critique' an absolute abomination!)

Quote from Donna_137698 on Nov 20^th, 2011, 2:42pm:

 
Donna - I'm sorry we got you worked up again  
 
Listen, I'm sure it has absolutely nothing to do with being a professional artist/photographer.  It has to do with overall technique and quality.  Mindy has said this a hundred times but when we have an image we personally feel has good technique or is a quality design we point fingers at their decision and accuse them of being unfair.  GCU has raised the standards, yet they are still very reachable in comparison to most other greeting card publishers, so this still is the best place to be and a great place to learn.
 
As Corrie and I both have offered in critique comments and words of wisdom and most recently Tracie said it in her blog post - a photograph is not a greeting card it is simply an element within the design.  This at it's simplicity is brilliantly stated.  
 
Seeing something that doesn't sit right with you as an artist, to quote Randy's eloquent term, usually comes down to personal preference which is what 'art' is all about, and NOT something you can define as a flaw in the quality of the design or photograph.  
 
The difference between photography and any other art form is something I've touched on before in articles, so I'll leave you with these quotes of mine in the hopes they speak clearer to this subject:
 
"As a photographer, light has always fascinated me.  It can be the difference between an award-winning photograph and a snap-shot.  Shadows and highlights are just as intriguing and critical when a painter creates them as they are to the photographer who tries to capture them.  They create depth and mood, without a nice balance the photograph feels flat, muddy, and in general is unprofessional and unappealing.  Why?  Because the world of light and shadows is the world we live in, so why would we consider a photograph eye-catching if it is dull in comparison to what we see every day?"
 
and
 
"Photography is considered a Realist Medium in the arts, and realism is the intent to achieve a truthful representation of reality in its historical context.  This is the reason why the color of light plays such an important role in photography. The average person can look at a painting and because they know it was created from the imagination, a pink zebra is not only perfectly acceptable, its adorable. However, that same eye looking at a photograph of a zebra with a pink tint in the whites and purple in the blacks is considered unacceptable.
 
Why?  Because our minds tell us this is not a truthful representation of realty. This is another area where photographs taken by an amateur will stand out from those of the professional photographer. "

Quote from Heather_139849 on Nov 20^th, 2011, 6:51pm:

 
EXACTLY what I would like too.  Doreen, you give a nice reply but it doesn't answer the root question to me and it further clouds my ability to determine what makes a snapshot different from a good photograph because I'm obviously not understanding that.  I DO understand the need to produce to the best of my ability and GCU's need to step up the level.  You say I can achieve this - well, I can't even get myself motivated to try with all the unrest I feel and obviously felt by several others too.  Randy put it the best - the heart is going out of the creation process.  What happens now?  As I've said before, this has become such a cumbersome process now and all the issues I'm hearing is making me scratch my head if it is worth my effort when I haven't a clue where I stand in the grand scheme of things.
 
I've been tempted to put my work out to a local retailer after I can assemble a package of cards I think might work for this particular store.  I can't help but feel that things have gotten SO critical and nit-picky here that potential good selling cards will either be pulled from my store or future submissions declined.  I'm questioning if I want to invest the time and energy into creating cards for this site at the moment until some things are worked out - namely, the consistency issues with reviews.  We as artists are loosing a lot of time with the review period.  As I mentioned, I like to work on a particular image, make it the best I can, and if it will serve in multiple categories with text change or tweaks, I like to do them all at once.  One reviewer says the best thing to do is submit one and let it go through the process.  Well, this SAPS all my creative energy waiting because most likely by the time the card gets approved or declined, I'm no longer inspired to work any further on it.
 
EDIT - this also has me concerned because if I submit one image and it is actually approved, then any subsequent cards using the same image have to go through the two month or longer gauntlet and face decline.  Is this truly productive and proper use of my creative time?
 
I guess I am wrong in assuming that my "job" is to creative to the best of my ability (therefore such stress on perfect technique should be a tad more forgiving as another artist stated) a card that has "elements" of either drawings or photographs that are supposed to convey a message or feeling that will connect to a possible buyer.  Yes, make the images clear and nice, but what if my dog sitting out on the beach with a shadow behind him strikes a chord with a possible buyer?  I have to worry about a reviewer kicking it back to me because of a shadow?  Aren't ALL photographs snapshots in essence?  Every image IS a snapshot in time - they capture a moment, a feeling, a beautiful scene in real life recording it permanently in an image.  
 
Obviously, I don't get what makes a good greeting card.