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Use of automobile bits and pieces and names (Read 3143 times)
Randall_140313
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Use of automobile bits and pieces and names
Mar 6th, 2011, 11:24am
 
I've done a couple of vintage or antique car images which were accepted, but remember i had to blur out the automobile makers logo on the gas tank of the motorcycle.  I've got an image I wanted to use for a 50s series of cards.  Its a tightly shot image of the tailights on a 1958 De Soto Firesweep.  De Soto a Chrysler brand of cars was marketed from 1929 to 1961 and is no longer producing cars with their different models, the Firesweep, Firedome and so on.   The tailights are unmistakeably one of a kind.  Two questions here really, am I correct in that it's OK to use the image of only that part of the car and although I'm fairly certain I can't use or show any of the trade names in the image or text, can they still be used in the keywords or in my artist's description box?
 
I started to create several versions of this card for age specific, fifty's birthdays, and invites for other 50's related events and after digging through the Wiki and not finding a clear answer decided I'd better ask before I spend a lot of time only to have the reviewrs reject my submissions.  Here's an example which I placed in my private gallery for this question.
 
http://www.greetingcarduniverse.com/community/viewdetails.asp?pid=784404&aid =140313&ref=cb_card_title
 
Thank you,  Randy
 
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Betty_136243
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Re: Use of automobile bits and pieces and names
Reply #1 - Mar 6th, 2011, 11:43am
 
Hi Randy, I used the keyword MP3 on one of my kitty cards with Bud & Tony listening to music on their mp3 players, and the reviewer removed it due to it being a trade name. I hope that helps to answer one of your questions.
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Randall_140313
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Re: Use of automobile bits and pieces and names
Reply #2 - Mar 6th, 2011, 11:52am
 
Quote from Betty_136243 on Mar 6th, 2011, 11:43am:
Hi Randy, I used the keyword MP3 on one of my kitty cards with Bud & Tony listening to music on their mp3 players, and the reviewer removed it due to it being a trade name. I hope that helps to answer one of your questions.

 
I'm aware of slogans or marketing names that are being used currently or recently to market a product, but these are over 50 years in the past.  De Soto and all it's trademarks have likely since expired and no longer active.  Still I'm not using it on the card, but am not sure if it's OK using terms in keywords that a person would find helpful in a search for a specific style or make of a since retired automobile.  I did have an old 40's BMW war motorcycle that they removed the BMW from my keywords, but that is still a current and active trade name.  
 
Thanks for your input.
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Peggy_137160
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Re: Use of automobile bits and pieces and names
Reply #3 - Mar 6th, 2011, 12:14pm
 
Randy, don't assume just because the car no longer lives that the trademark doesn't.  The maker is very likely to still have ownership of the name and mark and logo, since it IS distinctly "theirs" even tho no longer on the active market.  Usually using those things in keywords and descriptions is a strict no ...  
 
I'd research the actual info further, or contact the parent auto company for a definitive answer (get it in writing ...)
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Randall_140313
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Re: Use of automobile bits and pieces and names
Reply #4 - Mar 6th, 2011, 12:15pm
 
Quote from Peggy_137160 on Mar 6th, 2011, 12:14pm:
Randy, don't assume just because the car no longer lives that the trademark doesn't.  The maker is very likely to still have ownership of the name and mark and logo, since it IS distinctly "theirs" even tho no longer on the active market.  Usually using those things in keywords and descriptions is a strict no ...

I'd research the actual info further, or contact the parent auto company for a definitive answer (get it in writing ...)

 
Woops, Ok can modify.  Hit post before I typed in the message.  lol
 
Anyway, kind of thought they might still have the trademarks, but din't think it mattered if your not compering with a brand and sales from it or using it directly in that regard.  One of those grey areas I guess?  I don't have that much problem with the keywords or the artist description, but thought a little more being specific would be a positive thing.  You can use breed names for animals, but cars are different I guess?
 
Thank you, Peggy!
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Sue_132963
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Re: Use of automobile bits and pieces and names
Reply #5 - Mar 6th, 2011, 12:20pm
 
Randall, I have twice tried to put up images of just the headlight (once) and just a taillight (once) from cars out of the 50s.  Both were denied... I even tried one of the nice curvy hood and windshield showing a pair of furry dice hanging from the chrome rear-view mirror.  No markers/logos... Denied... Needless to say, I don't try to use my nifty-fifties car shots anymore...   Angry
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Randall_140313
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Re: Use of automobile bits and pieces and names
Reply #6 - Mar 6th, 2011, 12:23pm
 
Quote from Sue_132963 on Mar 6th, 2011, 12:20pm:
Randall, I have twice tried to put up images of just the headlight (once) and just a taillight (once) from cars out of the 50s.  Both were denied... I even tried one of the nice curvy hood and windshield showing a pair of furry dice hanging from the chrome rear-view mirror.  No markers/logos... Denied... Needless to say, I don't try to use my nifty-fifties car shots anymore...   Angry

 
Sue, I hear you, although there are some images of most of or the whole cars, late 60s camaro for one and a 1956 Chevy Belair and with the reference in the cards to the fifty's in that instance.  There are a lot of absolutely distiguishable tail lights, grilles, hood markings, headlights and so on.  There shouldn't be any issue with these as we're not competing with the car manufacturer but as I can see, there's a lot of inconsistency on this topic.
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Doreen_137017
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Re: Use of automobile bits and pieces and names
Reply #7 - Mar 6th, 2011, 12:28pm
 
Randall,
 
I know that I have some images on cards where I removed the emblem that was on the steering wheel, though to car enthusiasts, these cars would still be quite recognizable and GCU accepted them, however...
 
I have two old, old Indian Motorcycle pieces that were done in watercolor.  In my gallery days, these were HUGE sellers as limited edition fine art prints, however, when I put the pieces up on Zazzle, I was contacted by the 'new owners' of the Indian Motorcycle 'brand' and had to take the pieces down.
 
My guess is, your card as it is in your example will be okay.  Using any words to describe the make/model of the vehicle will not be allowed.  Think about it...if you can't have a logo, make or model visible because that is possible infringement, would the same not apply to using the words?
 
If I were you, I would stick with classic cars, cars from the 50's and so on.
 
Just my thoughts  Smiley
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Sue_132963
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Re: Use of automobile bits and pieces and names
Reply #8 - Mar 6th, 2011, 12:31pm
 
Well Randy, If it works for you, please let me know... Maybe I'll give it another try.   Roll Eyes
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Randall_140313
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Re: Use of automobile bits and pieces and names
Reply #9 - Mar 6th, 2011, 12:32pm
 
Quote from Doreen_137017 on Mar 6th, 2011, 12:28pm:
Randall,

I know that I have some images on cards where I removed the emblem that was on the steering wheel, though to car enthusiasts, these cars would still be quite recognizable and GCU accepted them, however...

I have two old, old Indian Motorcycle pieces that were done in watercolor.  In my gallery days, these were HUGE sellers as limited edition fine art prints, however, when I put the pieces up on Zazzle, I was contacted by the 'new owners' of the Indian Motorcycle 'brand' and had to take the pieces down.

My guess is, your card as it is in your example will be okay.  Using any words to describe the make/model of the vehicle will not be allowed.  Think about it...if you can't have a logo, make or model visible because that is possible infringement, would the same not apply to using the words?

If I were you, I would stick with classic cars, cars from the 50's and so on.

Just my thoughts  Smiley

 
I'm thinking along with you Doreen.  Also wondering about some of the photos I've taken of people but digitally manipulated the image so that it now mostly depicts a profession or someone engaged in an activity.  If a person were to say that it was them, yes perhaps the features are similar, but it's not defenative, especially in the case of heavy makeup and costuming.  Also if you draw or paint an image of a person and it looks inadverently similar to someone is that an issue or are those images and the ones I referred to acceptable without model releases?
The one image in paticular is of a female black entertainer in a small local troupe.  Her features and makeup say 20's Jazz all over them and I've saturated and grained the image so much it looks like a painting or air brush piece.  You could say it was her or could be anybody with similar features.  
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Sue_132963
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Re: Use of automobile bits and pieces and names
Reply #10 - Mar 6th, 2011, 2:08pm
 
Randy, Doreen, and anyone else interested:  I went back and found a couple of the old ones that I had refused.  I have uploaded them into my 'Private Gallery,' so you can go take a look.  Perhaps you can tell me why they were refused for infringement of copy copyright?  undecided
I sure don't have a clue and as I said, it made me give up on my line of 'nifty-fifties' that I had planned...
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Randall_140313
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Re: Use of automobile bits and pieces and names
Reply #11 - Mar 6th, 2011, 2:35pm
 
Quote from Sue_132963 on Mar 6th, 2011, 2:08pm:
Randy, Doreen, and anyone else interested:  I went back and found a couple of the old ones that I had refused.  I have uploaded them into my 'Private Gallery,' so you can go take a look.  Perhaps you can tell me why they were refused for infringement of copy copyright?  undecided
I sure don't have a clue and as I said, it made me give up on my line of 'nifty-fifties' that I had planned...

 
Yeah, I don't know Sue???  There's a lot more of some cars on here than that, I think it may have just been the reviewer and if you had clarified yourself, they may have gone ahead and accepted it.  That's why I asked, especially with some of the cards already up, but I saw a couple of tail light features and especially that 56 Belair which are no doubters.  I read something more detailed on this in the forums or the Wiki, but couldn't find it again and it in itself was a bit ambiguous.
 
 
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Sue_132963
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Re: Use of automobile bits and pieces and names
Reply #12 - Mar 6th, 2011, 2:39pm
 
Randy, No... I had quite a go round with reviewers over this.  But this was a long time ago, right after GCU had a problem with a particular car manufacturer... Perhaps they have come to grips with things a little better now...  Hopefully...
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Doreen_137017
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Re: Use of automobile bits and pieces and names
Reply #13 - Mar 6th, 2011, 3:14pm
 
Quote from Sue_132963 on Mar 6th, 2011, 2:08pm:
Randy, Doreen, and anyone else interested:  I went back and found a couple of the old ones that I had refused.  I have uploaded them into my 'Private Gallery,' so you can go take a look.  Perhaps you can tell me why they were refused for infringement of copy copyright?  undecided
I sure don't have a clue and as I said, it made me give up on my line of 'nifty-fifties' that I had planned...

 
Well the one on the left with the skinny oval, you have 'hood ornaments' which is a no no.  The other, I'm guessing because there is so much of the car that it is clearly recognizable, but I'm only guessing.
 
The two I had that were accepted are here:
 
http://www.greetingcarduniverse.com/-For+Our+Son+on+His+Birthday+Classic+Car+Ste ering+Wheel-greeting+card-442292?pid=442292&gcu=43045123714
 
http://www.greetingcarduniverse.com/-Goodbye+and+Farewell+Classic+Car+Steering+W heel-greeting+card-441986?pid=441986&gcu=43045123714
 
I've given up on my old motorcycle series, so I think unless you want to take the time to attempt to work with the company who owns the rights to that vehicle (some are very nice) so you can gain the rights to sell your work...I would just move on like Sue did  Grin
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Peggy_137160
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Re: Use of automobile bits and pieces and names
Reply #14 - Mar 6th, 2011, 3:40pm
 
Quote from Randall_140313 on Mar 6th, 2011, 12:23pm:
...  There shouldn't be any issue with these as we're not competing with the car manufacturer but as I can see, there's a lot of inconsistency on this topic.  

 
No, you aren't competing with them, but you ARE using the draw of their name/product to make money.  That's a definite no-no in the eyes of the copyright holder!  Wink
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