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Reviewers asking us to CHANGE ART or PHOTOs (Read 7883 times)
Ernestine_131365
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Reviewers asking us to CHANGE ART or PHOTOs
Feb 8th, 2011, 10:16am
 
I received this from one of our reviewers: ". . . Could you please remove the distracting elements in the photo to the left. Thanks"   Angry Shocked Huh
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/18578595/love%20board%202.jpg
 
OMG, are you kidding?? When did reviewers start asking the artists to actually CHANGE their images to suite them.  This is a photo of roadside "junk art" (hence the roadside JUNK in the photo)  The copy also refers to "finding love anywhere"  (amidst junk . . hello? get it? . . evidently not).
 
This disturbs me greatly.  Where do they get off telling us to actually CHANGE our designs and photos, not because of image quality but design??  This is going TOO far.  Too much time is being spent on subjective uninformed opinion while basic items are being misjudged.   Here you are asking to make ridiculous changes when on a recently approved card I had a misspelling in the title that wasn't caught by reviewers and pointed out to me by Corrie when posted on Facebook.  Not to mention the 3 weeks it took to approve/deny these cards.
 
Four years on GCU and 40 years designing . . . but what do I know!?!?!  
 
 embarrassed  ernestine
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Petra_Katrine_137769
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Re: Reviewers asking us to CHANGE ART or PHOTOs
Reply #1 - Feb 8th, 2011, 10:28am
 
I agree with Ernestine.  I recently submitted an image of my puppy Carmelita on an afghan that I MADE for my husband as a Christmas gift.  She was in a heart frame and the blanket make her pop into view.  The REVIEWER thought the image too distracting and asked that I fix it.
 
How to fix it, pray tell?  It was a VALENTINE's card with my sweetheart looking lovingly at her mama (that's me) with one ear perked up as though she hoped we were going walking that morning.  The blanket was my love for her and my husband in physical form.  How DARE the reviewer insist that I remove it?
 
Aside from the fact it's impossible and would destroy the ambiance of the image, what right has she to make such a subjective decision?  I thought you encouraged creativity here.  Was I mistaken?
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Donna_137698
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Re: Reviewers asking us to CHANGE ART or PHOTOs
Reply #2 - Feb 8th, 2011, 10:28am
 
I don't think they have any business telling you how to make your art except to make sure it falls within being of high enough resolution, clarity, and sharpness to make a good print - subject matter is off limits!!!  Just because the reviewer finds it distracting is not something they should be asking for corrections on...  
 
but who am I to say anything?  I'm too new at this game but I'll be darned I'm going to change my art except to have it fit the template and be clear to make a good print.
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Donna_137698
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Re: Reviewers asking us to CHANGE ART or PHOTOs
Reply #3 - Feb 8th, 2011, 10:40am
 
oh and just to add, I saw the card Petra posted - the only thing I saw wrong was just a little clip of her coffee table in the corner that I helped her fix... but the dog is a lovely light sandy/cream color and really pops out on that blanket of colors!  It's a sweet picture, in focus, and colorful.
 
Wish you could link to that picture so folks can see it and maybe offer some advice to see if the reviewer's opinion holds water.
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Sue_132963
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Re: Reviewers asking us to CHANGE ART or PHOTOs
Reply #4 - Feb 8th, 2011, 11:06am
 
Ernestine, Sometime back, well over a year ago, I had the same thing happen to me.  The 'distracting background' was what 'told the story' in my mind... It was a magic moment... one of my favorite images of all time... but never have used it.  Sometimes the reviewers are guilty of the human error of 'can't see the forest for the trees,' IMHO.  Sorry to hear you're experiencing this...
Your art, your 'eye' is wonderful.
Hugs!
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Maria_133363
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Re: Reviewers asking us to CHANGE ART or PHOTOs
Reply #5 - Feb 8th, 2011, 11:21am
 
That reviewer was definitely out of line. Let that person know that!
Good grief....
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Mindy
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Re: Reviewers asking us to CHANGE ART or PHOTOs
Reply #6 - Feb 8th, 2011, 11:32am
 
Give me a bit to look into this and post back please.  Until then please hold your fire.  A calm approach can be had re: review issues.  We are always open for discussion and re-review.
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Gillean_137778
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Re: Reviewers asking us to CHANGE ART or PHOTOs
Reply #7 - Feb 8th, 2011, 12:22pm
 
I once got a warning and was told to use the spell checker - which in some cases isn't appropriate because I spell English the English way being from the UK but in this instance it was Bast and Bastet which were highlighted and the card was entitled "Bast Wishes".  It was Bast the Egyptian cat goddess, not sure of any other way to spell it...
 
Gillean
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Donna_137698
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Re: Reviewers asking us to CHANGE ART or PHOTOs
Reply #8 - Feb 8th, 2011, 1:12pm
 
Bast it is Gillean.  Why didn't she/he just ask you first before issuing a warning?  This makes me nervous that things like this might come back on the artist in the end.  The system is so bogged down as is and I'm trying really hard to be patient with the now three or four week wait and making use of the tutorials and I know we are all human - but maybe if we just had some better communication between reviewer and artist we could avoid such issues.
 
This makes me wonder if I did a card using slang if I wouldn't be warned for improper English.
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Mindy
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Re: Reviewers asking us to CHANGE ART or PHOTOs
Reply #9 - Feb 8th, 2011, 1:40pm
 
Upon re-review I personally agree that your image is ok and you've done a fine job connecting your image (roadside junk) to your verse (unusual places).  Kudos to you for making it cleverly work.  I will have a review team member approve it for you.  Our apologies for the delay and poor judgment.
 
However I have to share Ernestine that I find your reply to the reviewer unnecessarily harsh.  A few kind words go a long way.  So please do "let that person know" but there's no need to let them have it.
 
"I WILL NOT!!! .... Get over yourselves ... Personally, I feel that most of the review staff is not qualified to be passing approval on our cards."
 
We're always happy to reconsider.  We do make errors.  There is some subjectivity in the review process.  It's not as black and white of a process as we'd like it to be or as it seems it should be.
 
We have been returning cards for quite some time now re: image quality and composition (specifically photographs with household items and distracting and unrelated elements in the background which was the case w/ Petra's returned card that I'll address separately).   We will likely begin to apply more marketability judgment on cards in an effort to raise the bar on the overall professionalism of cards as a whole offered on GCU.  
 
Thank you for working with us and for your patience  Smiley
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Donna_137698
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Re: Reviewers asking us to CHANGE ART or PHOTOs
Reply #10 - Feb 8th, 2011, 2:42pm
 
Mindy, I think the simple answer to this whole situation is simple frustration.  It takes so long to get feedback from the reviewers now.  I was always taught that my art is my art.  People either like it or hate it.  Anyone I know in the art field has told me that.  Now, this obviously might conflict with what is considered marketable - so will you share definitions of what is marketable (since that is everyone's goal here).
 
I'm really trying to learn the ropes here and having tried to help Petra enhance her work as well - I guess I'm not as learned as I thought I was... please help.
 
Would it be too much to ask if there is a place where newbies can go to have our work critiqued before it even goes to the reviewers?  I think it might serve some of us well if some of the more experienced might take a look at samples of our work and offer advice on what you (meaning GCU) might be looking for.  Feel free to email me privately...
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Petra_Katrine_137769
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Re: Reviewers asking us to CHANGE ART or PHOTOs
Reply #11 - Feb 8th, 2011, 4:54pm
 
Thank you for responding so quickly, Mindy.  I also apologize if you think my reply was a tad too harsh.  I was at the end of my tether when I wrote you, having tried to fix the image several times with no luck.  Donna graciously offered to help and removed the sofa arm, which SHOULD have come out.  I still wonder why the colors of the afghan seem so distracting, when in my eyes they're perfect to pop Carmelita from the background.
 
Neutral colors would bleach her further and make printing a real nightmare on your end; at least I think so.
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Susan_142450
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Re: Reviewers asking us to CHANGE ART or PHOTOs
Reply #12 - Feb 8th, 2011, 5:00pm
 
Agree with Donna 100%.
 
You know, this is really getting more ridiculous & frustrating every day I read these forums.  
I still question (as do others obviously) many of the reviewers reasoning & (IMO) arbitrary judgements on wording or subject categories and now they're going to start making content calls above and beyond cropping, resolution, focus/out-of-focus, and (ahem) copyright?
I'm really not sure I'm happy about that. I'd like to know who the arbiters of pleasing subject matter and composition will be. Recognisable artists who are masters of illustration, photography, painting, etc? There's a lot of freedom of expression here and a huge range of taste, knowledge and art experience. Who's to say? Is this site is becoming a juried art show?  
How long will a review take then? I hear it's up to nearly 3 weeks now.  
To be honest, maybe I need to think about not adding more to my shop here and concentrate on other venues. Maybe GCU wouldn't care - I'm just one artist...but maybe that's the point I'm making.
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Petra_Katrine_137769
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Re: Reviewers asking us to CHANGE ART or PHOTOs
Reply #13 - Feb 8th, 2011, 5:08pm
 
I'm taking a WAS (wait and see) approach, Susan.  They might be getting more finicky because there's more competition than there once was.  I've noticed two more 'greetings centered' sites lately plus a couple of forum posts about returns from unhappy customers.  I agree on the content issues, but still wonder if buyers are pulling up and reviewing the cards before purchase to see if they're really what they want.
 
Sorry if that last wasn't really clear.  I'm having trouble getting the words out now.
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Donna_137698
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Re: Reviewers asking us to CHANGE ART or PHOTOs
Reply #14 - Feb 8th, 2011, 6:46pm
 
Susan, this IS my fear now... I am NOT a classically trained artist... I don't have a degree or title in it... I've never done an art show or gallery outside of educational displays in my home town featuring my documentary photographs of birds or had similar type photos in the local newspapers.  I've been doodling, taking pictures, and coloring since I could hold the appropriate tools needed.  I paint horse models in realistic colors that have won awards for realism.  I did take a class in art history when in college and some of those works we had to see in person - expensive works by well-renowned artists - some I found gaudy and certainly not something I'd ever put in my house.  But people might pay millions for those pieces.  Those artists are marketable on their reputation and I'll scratch my head wondering why.  But THAT is my opinion.
 
I thought I would stretch my wings by doing greeting cards dabbling with combinations of digital art, photography, and even my own drawings - whatever at the moment inspires me.  I know the end goal is making money, but will us artists now need a portfolio of successful work and a resume to be considered marketable here?  If so, how do you draw up guidelines for something so subjective when art is considered beautiful or not by the individual?  If being a papered artist is to be a requirement, then I will need to pull my work too because I don't have such qualifications.  Do I want to?  No!!  Despite the aggravation of recent months with issues with the review process, I do enjoy the creation process and I do understand the idea of making a marketable product (and understand this more fully with thanks to the vids on the Wiki) - I have sold some of my cards and it does inspire me to continue working on getting better at this craft.  
 
Mindy, why are cards being returned?  We rarely if ever hear of those issues?  Are customers complaining about content on the cards or printing issues that are out of the hands of the artists that generated the images?  Are the returns coming from particular artists who might do well with some tutelage or mentoring?  If the bar is to be raised on the artists, will the same be done to the reviewers?  After all, it's taking SO LONG now to get work reviewed.  Mindy, you admit some of the reviewers are not qualified.  What's being done about that?  Sorry, I have to ask since I feel we are being chewed out here for calling into question why the ART is now being put into question.
 
YES, we all are human and we all will make mistakes, but if content is going to be questioned beyond correct grammar and spelling and ability to provide a quality print, then I think it best that hard set black and white guidelines be established on what is acceptable and marketable and that reviewers be educated on what GCU needs them to do just as we artists are being educated via the tutorials on the Wiki.  
 
I'm now very worried that I am not going to be acceptable here in not being a "papered" artist.  Everyone's idea on what is attractive is subjective... but should a reviewer call into question what is distracting in their eye like a particular colored blanket or that they didn't make a connection concerning the "junk art" that started this thread?  And Ernestine, that was a FABULOUS card!!  Love it!!  As I stated before, I think we are very frustrated artists... we are here doing work to make a product and our art is being called into question.  YES, we should be most diligent in checking our work for composition and ability to make a good print, BUT are the reviewers going to continue casting their opinions on the art itself?  Consider the length of time it's taking to get feedback now... I hope you understand our frustrations and lashing out when we ARE trying to provide quality work.
 
If it comes down to competition and GCU is having to raise the bar, then that's fine... but set hard guidelines for us to follow so we know exactly what we are expected to produce.  If our art doesn't fit with GCU, then we have the option to go elsewhere.  But this strictness needs to be placed on the reviewers too.  Can't we find a way to make this more of a partnership instead of putting artists into the fire all the time and then lashing at us when we complain or have our little hissy fits?
 
What exactly is the percentage of returned cards?  Is there a breakdown some place that you can share with us on what the reasoning is for the returns?  Maybe if we have some insight, we as artists can work on making sure we don't make those mistakes.  If it's a case of "buyer's remorse," then maybe a no return policy based on composition should be put in place and only do refunds for printing issues (color printing was fowled, creases where there shouldn't be, print is cut incorrectly, etc).  GCU does allow the potential buyer to see larger images and in my opinion they are plenty large enough to judge quality and composition before purchasing.  They have the ability to edit the text inside the card.  Maybe I could suggest if it's coming consistently from certain artists, then maybe suspending those artists and providing them with a mentoring program to help them improve and if they fail to then perhaps asking that they reconsider working with GCU?  Just tossing out ideas here... but I don't think the art should be changed because some reviewer says it's distracting in their eyes.  THAT is their opinion and it may not be to a buyer (unless it is something like Petra's stray piece of chair in the frame which WE did fix).  Yes, I absolutely agree that we artists should be more diligent in catching such issues... as we should be strongly critiquing our images for clarity and composition.  But, should a reviewer call into question what is and isn't attractive?  I'm of the opinion that the answer should be no unless GCU intends on promoting and selling only certain kinds of art work...
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