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Can I use this??? (Read 4338 times)
Robin_145428
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Can I use this???
Jan 13th, 2011, 6:31am
 
Not sure if I can use this.. Even though It's an original of Mine. Would appreciate the guidance,, thanks in advance
http://artist.greetingcarduniverse.com/images/csphoto/1107/00/00/14/54/28/s0j552 q6d5o_hres.jpg
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Maryann_132542
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Re: Can I use this???
Reply #1 - Jan 13th, 2011, 6:41am
 
That is adorable!!!  
 
I did a white rabbit about a year ago and it was accepted. I just had to remove any keywords that made reference to Alice in Wonderland. So I would think so.
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Susan_142450
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Re: Can I use this???
Reply #2 - Jan 13th, 2011, 7:05am
 
Agree w/Mary Ann.
Whatever do you mean? It is painting of a girl in a tunnel in a blue dress... Wink
 
Seriously though, I know GCU is very concerned about copyright (and understandably so) and generally errs on the side of overcautious (which to me actually means maybe they don't fully understand copyright & who owns what).
 
As illustrators, we are allowed to paint and sell images of public domain characters. The original Alice In WOnderland is in public domain. Disney or Tim Burton or anyone else does NOT own the exclusive rights to produce images for that story or the characters in the story. (They own the images & story THEY tell & create, NOT the AIW story itself.) You or I cannot be harrassed by said parties unless we infringe on their creative copyright. (Can't paint a picture or use a picture of Johnny Depp as the Mad Hatter, or use a line from the movie as a caption.)
 
In fact the Tennet drawings in the original books are in public domain as well, which means that you can use and sell them as you want - make fabric or tshirts, decoupage or collage, re-caption them, etc.
 
Here are some answers about Lewis Carroll & public domain as well as reference links to public domain information.
http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview/id/761210.html
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_'Alice_in_Wonderland'_in_the_public_domain
 
 
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Susan_142450
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Re: Can I use this???
Reply #3 - Jan 13th, 2011, 7:09am
 
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Robin_145428
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Re: Can I use this???
Reply #4 - Jan 13th, 2011, 7:09am
 
Makes Sense to me..So if it gets rejected I can argue this? ok .. I'm Gonna go for it..thanks to you both.. and Thank you for the interesting Link Also Smiley
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Susan_142450
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Re: Can I use this???
Reply #5 - Jan 13th, 2011, 7:12am
 
I would argue if that happened...but you can see by the link there are plenty of AIW, tagged images on GCU.
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Card_Review_Team
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Re: Can I use this???
Reply #6 - Jan 13th, 2011, 7:23am
 
Hi, Robin,
 
Any time you get involved with a Disney character, you're going to run into trouble using the image, especially because your image is iconic, with a blond-haired character wearing a blue dress. I did a little research on this for you and found that most answers pointed toward "No". It's likely that unless you can show us solid researching saying otherwise, we would not approve.  
 
Thanks for asking. It's so much easier on all of us if the artist asks first. Reviewers dislike sending back artwork on which an artist has spent a lot of time and effort.
 
Reviewer 443
 
Quote from Robin_145428 on Jan 13th, 2011, 6:31am:
Not sure if I can use this.. Even though It's an original of Mine. Would appreciate the guidance,, thanks in advance
http://artist.greetingcarduniverse.com/images/csphoto/1107/00/00/14/54/28/s0j552 q6d5o_hres.jpg

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Susan_142450
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Re: Can I use this???
Reply #7 - Jan 13th, 2011, 7:44am
 
Dear Reviewer 443 - again, though I understand what you are saying, the argument is moot:  
 
a. Disney does not OWN the image of blond girls in blue dresses. They simply can't for more reasons than I care to get into here (for one thing, you can't copyright color.) Disney ONLY owns their image of Alice. Even DIsney knows that. DIsney does not OWN the rights to ALice in WOnderland overall. They can't. Period.
 
b. On GCU there are nearly a dozen images of girls in blue dresses TAGGED Alice in Wonderland. I just tried it and provided the link. Some images are even NAMED ALICE IN WONDERLAND!  
If you were going to reject her image, then you'd need to go back and pull all those images that depict not just Alice (a blond girl in a blue dress) but all the Mad Hatter and March Hare & whatever else as well.  
 
I think the thing that irks me the most (and the reason I'm even persuing this stream) is that apparently the ALL the reviewers do not understand copyright and public domain issues and worse, that they don't know what's already on their own site.  
 
PS: Who is Reviewer 443 and why are they a NEWBIE?
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Card_Review_Team
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Re: Can I use this???
Reply #8 - Jan 13th, 2011, 7:55am
 
As I said, if we can be given research info from the artist, it makes these decisions (and card approvals) less time consuming. In the end, it's up to the artist to research trademark/copyright issues. While it may not be "right", Disney can be overly protective of images they consider theirs. GCU is not in the business of advocating for artists' use of images such as this.  
 
I'm happy to bring this issue to the other reviewers and GCU administrators. I'm also happy to be proven wrong. Robin has made a wonderful image.
 
Thank you, Robin, for asking about this image. We will get back to you as soon as we can.
 
Reviewer 443
 
Quote from Susan_142450 on Jan 13th, 2011, 7:44am:
Dear Reviewer 443 - again, though I understand what you are saying, the argument is moot:

a. Disney does not OWN the image of blond girls in blue dresses. They simply can't for more reasons than I care to get into here (for one thing, you can't copyright color.) Disney ONLY owns their image of Alice. Even DIsney knows that. DIsney does not OWN the rights to ALice in WOnderland overall. They can't. Period.

b. On GCU there are nearly a dozen images of girls in blue dresses TAGGED Alice in Wonderland. I just tried it and provided the link. Some images are even NAMED ALICE IN WONDERLAND!
If you were going to reject her image, then you'd need to go back and pull all those images that depict not just Alice (a blond girl in a blue dress) but all the Mad Hatter and March Hare & whatever else as well.

I think the thing that irks me the most (and the reason I'm even persuing this stream) is that apparently the ALL the reviewers do not understand copyright and public domain issues and worse, that they don't know what's already on their own site.

PS: Who is Reviewer 443 and why are they a NEWBIE?

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Pamela_135500
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Re: Can I use this???
Reply #9 - Jan 13th, 2011, 8:11am
 
Susan,
Reviewer 443 is a 'newbie' because the card review team has recently joined the forum in such discussions as a way for better communications between artists and reviewers. The designation 'newbie' refers only to the number of forum posts one makes. Reviewer 443 is NOT a 'newbie' to the review process.
 
I appreciate the review team working with us, and feel any disagreements should be put forward respectfully and any information for clarification presented in a helpful way, not demeaning the reviewers.
Just my opinion.
Pamela
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Joan_135833
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Re: Can I use this???
Reply #10 - Jan 13th, 2011, 8:45am
 
Quote from Pamela_135500 on Jan 13th, 2011, 8:11am:
Susan,
Reviewer 443 is a 'newbie' because the card review team has recently joined the forum in such discussions as a way for better communications between artists and reviewers. The designation 'newbie' refers only to the number of forum posts one makes. Reviewer 443 is NOT a 'newbie' to the review process.

I appreciate the review team working with us, and feel any disagreements should be put forward respectfully and any information for clarification presented in a helpful way, not demeaning the reviewers.
Just my opinion.
Pamela

 
Not just your opinion, Pamela. Thank you very much for writing and posting this eloquent, excellent reaction.
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Robin_145428
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Re: Can I use this???
Reply #11 - Jan 13th, 2011, 8:57am
 
Well I can see this is very contraversial...Not doing anything yet,, I will wait.. thank you.
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Robin_145428
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Re: Can I use this???
Reply #12 - Jan 13th, 2011, 8:59am
 
Quote from Susan_142450 on Jan 13th, 2011, 7:09am:

 
 
Oh Wow look at all of them Shocked thanks Susan
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Tanya_135475
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Re: Can I use this???
Reply #13 - Jan 13th, 2011, 10:36am
 
I think (have to find it again) that the original Alice illustrations
are now public domain, Disney have never held the rights to Alice
just their own interpritation of Alice, they don't hold the colour
the dress nothing, just their particular drawing of her, I had a load
of free graphics when it went public, but ill see if I can find it all
it, the book itself is of course Copy write, but the illustratons
are not.......... but ill check the soures on that, I was going to use
her myself and I do have a lot of Alice works that are out there being
purchased Smiley  
 
Disney can't copy write the story, or the look the colour, similar to
anything Robin Hood, etc and so on, these are not Disney's to say
yes or no to they have no rights to Alice who is originally dressed
that way because that's what they wore them days...... and Alice
herself is always in those colours has been since what is it the middle
1800's? 1865 ish I think.
 
I think you could find a million thing's Disney uses that just aint theirs to own,
they only own their interpitations, I can list at least 20 Disney films that you  
could do your own interpritation on, if those images themselfs the originals are
in the domain.
 
I'ts like trying to copywrite Peter Pan they can't do that either Tongue  
or 100 Dalmations and the list could go on and on.
 
 
Tenniel died in 1914, so is comfortably in the public domain.
Similarly, according to the National Library of Scotland site, Maria
Kirk died in the 1930s, so is also in the public domain. Arthur
Rackham died in 1939, so is also in the public domain.
 
 
Tenniel being the or one of the original or early Illustrations.
 
You have to remember DISNEY own THEIR image of Alice
they do NOT or ever have had rights to the ORIGINAL interpritation
of Alice who is in a blue dress has blond hair, shoves herself down  
a rabbit hole etc, Disney BORROW things from old old stories, some folklaw
from Germany and the UK, in this case Scotland.. so as far as Disney goes
they would be right to copy write tinkerbell as you see her now in your mind
but If I made a fairy in green etc and all that and called it Tinkerbell Disney could
do nothing as they don't have rights to Tinkerbell herself (think this ones off limits anyway but just an example)
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Susan_142450
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Re: Can I use this???
Reply #14 - Jan 13th, 2011, 3:43pm
 
Thank you Tanya -
Though I maybe a newbie here, I have extensive experience in this area. (and provided some links above.) You make some excellent points. It does pay to research - some old books have had their copyrights renewed by family or parties acting on behalf of the author's estate. (Copyright laws have changed a lot in the last 150 years.) I believe that Beatrix Potter falls into this...I may be mistaken though.
 
Everyone is too afraid of DIsney...they are not the boogie man & are not above copyright law in the country. This is an important and informative discussion to have here and among artists in general.
 
There are many books and services available that explain copyright, public domain and other legal things that we should all be informed about. A simple search on Amazon or Google will provide you with many. You can go to your local library as well.  
I recommend: Tad Crawford's Legal Guide for the Visual Artist, Fifth Edition http://www.amazon.com/Legal-Guide-Visual-Artist-Fifth/dp/1581157428/ref=sr_1_4?i e=UTF8&qid=1294961713&sr=8-4
 
A couple of amazing organizations for artists include:
http://www.vlany.org/index.php Volunteer Lawyers for the Arts
http://www.freelancersunion.org/  Freelancers Union.
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