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oversaturated cards - advice needed!!! (Read 6875 times)
Lois_138267
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oversaturated cards - advice needed!!!
Nov 20th, 2009, 12:19pm
 
Hello all ...  
 
I have just ordered and received a sampling of cards that I have for sale here at GCU, and I must say I'm very disappointed.  I spend a great deal of time on my photography and try very hard to get color, saturation and clarity to a particular point, but instead of being rich and dramatic, the cards I received yesterday are over-saturated and dark ... to the point where I probably won't use them.  
 
Just got off the phone with Shaun at GCU who, rather wobbily, stated that he doesn't think the printers at GCU add additional saturation and contrast (which I know a lot of printers do), but admitted he really wasn't sure.  
 
I'm uploading 300 dpi, sRGB images ... have a HueyPro monitor calibration system and regularly check the local Apple Store's monitors in order to make sure my images are as correct as I can make them.
 
All this to say ... what do the other photographic artists here do??  I went through the site for at least an hour last night and found many, many other photographic images that are as colorful, rich and intense (dark or darker) than mine.  
 
The catch-22 is, if I lighten them to GUESSTIMATE what the finished product will look like (and there all control goes out the window), then the images will look washed out and amateurish online and won't be bought.  But if they're sold the way they are, my customer will never buy from me ... or GCU ... again!!!
 
As recommended, I placed them for sale and ordered them as "glossy" finish ... does "matte" solve this problem??
 
Am I the only person who has noticed this???  Shaun said he'd never had anyone mention this problem before.
 
 Huh
 
HELP!!!!
 
Any suggestions or advice will be greatly appreciated.  
 
Thanks so much in advance!!!
 
Lois Bryan
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Elizabeth_137795
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Re: oversaturated cards - advice needed!!!
Reply #1 - Nov 20th, 2009, 12:31pm
 
Hi Lois,
I love your photographs . . very vibrant and beautiful.
 
I have ordered  some of my floral photography cards and they were fantastic . . glossy. The one I ordered in matte wasn't as great, so I therefore make sure all of them are checked glossy.
 
Hopefully your problem is just a fluke and doesn't happen often.
 
good luck in the future,
elizabeth
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Cara_131386
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Re: oversaturated cards - advice needed!!!
Reply #2 - Nov 20th, 2009, 12:55pm
 
Did you say you ordered them in glossy?  I ordered one of my own cards a while back that was slightly washed out too.  I don't think I would accept "just a fluke".  Not when other people are buying the cards, because they won't accept "just a fluke".  I accepted it only because the particular card that was washed out some, was for my boyfriend and it was acceptable, so I let it go.  I think you should be offered a re-print at no charge to you, of the cards that you ordered that were washed out.  Well, anyway something needs to be done about cards that come out dull, because if the customer is not happy, we are all in trouble!
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Karen_131257
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Re: oversaturated cards - advice needed!!!
Reply #3 - Nov 20th, 2009, 1:05pm
 
Hi Lois
I think you have some stunning cards in your store. I sell mostly photographic cards and find I need to lighten the image slightly even for home printing, and it doesn`t really make them look less attractive online, and they print out better.
Hope that helps
Karen
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Andrew_138475
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Re: oversaturated cards - advice needed!!!
Reply #4 - Nov 20th, 2009, 1:47pm
 
Hi Lois,
I would ask GCU to supply you with their printer's color profile. My best guess would be something is happening when they convert your sRGB image to CMYK. Oddly, it usually goes the other way since RGB has a larger colorspace than CMYK.  
 
The web is rife with explanations about Color Mgt, so I won't belabor the point. Did find this link which manually allows you to desaturate out-of-gamut colors. Are you required to send only RGB?  
 
http://www.udel.edu/cookbook/scan-print/gamut-hue-sat/gamut-huesat.html
 
Good Luck,
 
Andy
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Mary_136862
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Re: oversaturated cards - advice needed!!!
Reply #5 - Nov 20th, 2009, 1:51pm
 
I don't know if this would have anything to do with your problem but you said you are uploading cards in sRGB. They are supposed to be uploaded in RGB. Just thought I would mention it just in case.  Smiley Mary  
 
 
Quote from Lois_138267 on Nov 20th, 2009, 12:19pm:
Hello all ...

I have just ordered and received a sampling of cards that I have for sale here at GCU, and I must say I'm very disappointed.  I spend a great deal of time on my photography and try very hard to get color, saturation and clarity to a particular point, but instead of being rich and dramatic, the cards I received yesterday are over-saturated and dark ... to the point where I probably won't use them.

Just got off the phone with Shaun at GCU who, rather wobbily, stated that he doesn't think the printers at GCU add additional saturation and contrast (which I know a lot of printers do), but admitted he really wasn't sure.  

I'm uploading 300 dpi, sRGB images ... have a HueyPro monitor calibration system and regularly check the local Apple Store's monitors in order to make sure my images are as correct as I can make them.

All this to say ... what do the other photographic artists here do??  I went through the site for at least an hour last night and found many, many other photographic images that are as colorful, rich and intense (dark or darker) than mine.  

The catch-22 is, if I lighten them to GUESSTIMATE what the finished product will look like (and there all control goes out the window), then the images will look washed out and amateurish online and won't be bought.  But if they're sold the way they are, my customer will never buy from me ... or GCU ... again!!!

As recommended, I placed them for sale and ordered them as "glossy" finish ... does "matte" solve this problem??

Am I the only person who has noticed this???  Shaun said he'd never had anyone mention this problem before.

Huh

HELP!!!!

Any suggestions or advice will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks so much in advance!!!

Lois Bryan

 
 
 
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Doreen_137017
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Re: oversaturated cards - advice needed!!!
Reply #6 - Nov 20th, 2009, 1:58pm
 
Hi Lois,
 
How disappointing for you, I'm so sorry.  I ordered a dozen of a huge variety of my cards in October for use as demos and on glossy (I don't like the matte either) they were all terrific.  Here are some things to check that you may already have done.
 
How are you achieving your sRGB?  Just something to check, a few years back I had the same results with my work on POD sites and did a lot of research to figure out my problem.  By Converting my images to the sRGB1EC61966-2.1 profile when I make the jpg and then using Curves I increase the center Output to 142 has made a perfect print.  I found that simply working in an sRGB environment was not the same as converting prior to uploading.  
 
I don't know if this will help or something you are already doing, just thought I'd mention it.  I have found that if I'm happy with my images online, they print beautifully.  Many of your online images are heavily saturated with dark mid-tones and highlights without punch.   You work is absolutely beautiful so it's a shame to have them not print correctly.  Have you printed your own work?  Or printed your work somewhere else?    
 
It is also possible that many of the card stores you visited who have photographs/digital work that you suggest is as dark or saturated as yours, that those artists have never seen their cards printed.  If I were you, I would convert, adjust the mid-tones and highlights to give more punch and ask GCU if they will print a couple of samples for you at their cost.  
 
Wish I had a solution for you.  I know how frustrating this is, I've been there.
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Neva_136472
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Re: oversaturated cards - advice needed!!!
Reply #7 - Nov 20th, 2009, 2:20pm
 
Lois:  Great photos!  Love your work.  For what it's worth, I do photography also and just ordered a LOT of my cards and they printed fine on matte paper so I compared our styles to each other and the difference could be that overall, your colors are a lot darker than mine. It's probably as simple as lightening them up some.   It might be a good idea to try a few that the colors aren't as saturated and order them to see what happens.  The good news is that mine do print fine so it's not impossible to get a quality card from them.
 Smiley
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Amy_137576
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Re: oversaturated cards - advice needed!!!
Reply #8 - Nov 20th, 2009, 2:51pm
 
Hi Lois,
 
Your cards are beautiful.  It's a shame if they are not printing well.  I'm new here, so have no suggestions, but I hope you will post again if you do find a good solution or if it turns out this was just a bad batch.  Please share what you learn.
 
Thanks,
Amy
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Lois_138267
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Re: oversaturated cards - advice needed!!!
Reply #9 - Nov 20th, 2009, 3:35pm
 
Thank you all so much for your kind comments.  
 
All good ideas ... the bottom line may well be that I'll have to redo the images, blind, as I'll have no idea how they'll turn out printed.   Gives me the shudders, LOL!!!  Neva your suggestion of lightening them is probably what I'll wind up doing, but how much trial and error before I get it right ... for ONE image ... then ... what about the next one??   ARUGH!!!  LOL!!!!
 
Andrew, your idea about getting the printer's profile seems a good one.  Not sure I'll understand all of it, but I'm willing to give it a go, for sure!!!!
 
Karen, I hear you on the lightening ... I have a phobia about washed out images so maybe I do go too far in the other direction.  I do push the color envelope, I admit!!!
 
Doreen, I'm converting to sRGB IEC61966-2.1 in final step along with making sure we're at 300dpi ... after I've finished tweaking in Photoshop and just prior to upload.  So the editing process is probably accomplished in Camera RGB.  
 
Bottom line, I'd really like to stay here ... it's a different perspective for the old creativity side of the noggin' ... but I can't see it happening if everything I'm producing winds up looking like mud.  I'd be willing to put the time and effort into re-doing everything I've already uploaded as long as I could be satisfied that my final product would be acceptable ... and only then going forward and creating new work.  Doreen, I think your idea of getting help from GCU to ensure that new versions, with the work you suggested in curves, etc., is worthwhile, is an excellent suggestion.  
 
Mary, when I talked to Shaun I told him I was uploading in sRGB (RedBubble likes that one) ... and he didn't blink an eye ... or ... ear ... and the conversation flowed on from that point so my understanding was that was what they were looking for.  So, are we sure it's supposed to be RGB???  If I go and re do all these puppies ... heaven help me ... I want to do it right, lol!!!!
 
Thank you all again!!!
 
I reeeeeealy appreciate it!!!
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Rosalie_136698
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Re: oversaturated cards - advice needed!!!
Reply #10 - Nov 20th, 2009, 3:53pm
 
Hi Lois,
 
    I have received a few orders of my cards and have been very happy with the printing.  Mine so far have been outstanding.   Not sure why you would be having a problem. undecided undecided undecided   rosiecards
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Mary_136862
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Re: oversaturated cards - advice needed!!!
Reply #11 - Nov 20th, 2009, 4:12pm
 
Hi again Lois, I'm just going by the requirements as GCU posted under "Create A Card" and thought I would post it just in case. I don't have any idea if uploading in sRGB would result in the problem you are having. Have you tried printing out one of your cards yourself? A lot of suggestions have been made so I hope one of them will help you. Best Wishes, Mary
 
"Image Requirements
File Format: RGB JPEG (.jpg)
File Size: up to 3.85MB
Dimension: 5x7 inches or 7x5 inches  
 
 
 
................................................................................
....................................
Mary, when I talked to Shaun I told him I was uploading in sRGB (RedBubble likes that one) ... and he didn't blink an eye ... or ... ear ... and the conversation flowed on from that point so my understanding was that was what they were looking for.  So, are we sure it's supposed to be RGB???  If I go and re do all these puppies ... heaven help me ... I want to do it right, lol!!!!
 
Thank you all again!!!
 
I reeeeeealy appreciate it!!! [/quote]
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Lois_138267
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Re: oversaturated cards - advice needed!!!
Reply #12 - Nov 20th, 2009, 4:25pm
 
Thanks, Mary and Rosalie ...
 
I just spent a bit more time in Photoshop and lo and behold, there are four RGBs in there ... an "Adobe RGB1998" an "Apple RGB" (I'm on a Mac), a "Color Match RGB" and the "sRGB IEC61966-2."  But no plain vanilla RGB.  ~thud~  <~~ me falling off my chair, lol
 
By the way, Doreen, I tried your suggestion of Output 142 in curves on one of the images and I liked what I saw a lot.  And you're using the sRGB IEC61966-2 and are happy with it???  
 
Maybe I'll do a few trial runs with this formula and see what happens.  
 
Mary, I do have several printers, only one of which is photo-worthy ... and it's been sitting in its little box since last Christmas (hanging head in shame) ....  undecided
 
OOOO wouldn't it be fantastic if we were finally on the right track!!!
 
 
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Norma_133903
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Re: oversaturated cards - advice needed!!!
Reply #13 - Nov 21st, 2009, 1:15am
 
Have you checked the histograms for the dark images? That should really be the first stop. Then print them yourself.
Some do look dark on my monitor (which is correctly calibrated using a Spyder). The thanksgiving pumpkins picture in particular is very dark, with the pumpkins being the lightest part,but no details in the shadows. The dogwood blossom is also very dark, with the blossom being a shade of brown.
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Neva_136472
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Re: oversaturated cards - advice needed!!!
Reply #14 - Nov 21st, 2009, 6:19am
 
Honestly, I woke up in the middle of the night and thought about this and so when I got back to my computer, I re-looked at your pics Lois and here's a thought:  Have you thought about backing off of the contrast? and saturation of the color?  And, overall, there just seems to be a lot of black, even in the color. Maybe that doesn't translate well in the printing.    Huh
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Lois_138267
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Re: oversaturated cards - advice needed!!!
Reply #15 - Nov 22nd, 2009, 5:55am
 
thanks, Norma and Neva ... yes I admit the colors are rich ... there's nothing I like better than jewel tones ... and most especially strong color on a black background.  But it's always great to get other eyes on my work, especially eyes of people like yourselves who are artists and who have had work published here.  I really appreciate your input.  
 
I did try Doreen's idea with curves and liked the results very much.  
 
Have made the decision to take the computer into the Apple store and have someone there work on the monitor calibration with me.  As long as my photoshop settings are what GCU is looking for, if I get the monitor exactly right (although I re calibrated yet again yesterday ... three times actually, lol) and go in and change all the ones that seem dark a bit ... I'll guess I'll be good.
 
Thank you all again so much for your thoughts!!!!!
 
Best,
Lois
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Margaret_137714
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Re: oversaturated cards - advice needed!!!
Reply #16 - Dec 6th, 2009, 9:41am
 
Just another thought, and I don't know if you do this or not, but if you can print a high-quality image on glossy paper yourself before submitting your graphics you might find flaws ahead of time. I have a Canon I9900 and glossy inkjet card stock from The Paper Mill Store and I've learned to lighten things up for printing. Your pics do seem dark and overly saturated in some cases.
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Margaret's Cooking, Baking, Culinary Greeting Cards:
http://www.greetingcarduniverse.com/Culinarygreetingcards
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_138140
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Re: oversaturated cards - advice needed!!!
Reply #17 - Mar 29th, 2010, 4:40pm
 
Hello Loi
 
Okay, my Christmas Card, which unfortunately isn't on my site anymore:  
 
www.greetingcarduniverse.com/grandmadearcards
 
also printed out darkly.   My cards also start out as photographs.  And come to think of it, it was a bit dark like your pumkins.  Lately I have been messing around a lot more with Adobe Photoshop and I will be sure to lighten it.  Thanks for your posting because all these suggestions should help me too.
 
I would also like it to be what you see is what you get.  I love your site.  Your cards are fantastic!
 
Teri
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