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Most popular and newest views (Read 4808 times)
Rosanne_132497
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Re: Most popular and newest views
Reply #15 - Apr 24th, 2008, 4:11pm
 
"Although a random sort sounds like a nice and fair approach, we feel strongly that the shopping pages should use a most likely to be purchased logic, which is the "most popular" formula.  To balance this we provided shoppers with the "Newest" page sort option. "  from Mindy
 
Sorry, Mindy, I don't agree here either. If I do a specific search for e.g. "yellow rose Mothers Day", then I would expect to see Mother's Day greeting cards with yellow roses on the front. For the most part, this is what you get (a few ring-ins but much improved now). If I am cruising through the general Mother's Day category, which contains 1625 entries, then I think that randomisation would be fairer. Let's face it, how many people are going to look any further than the first few pages? Randomisation would ensure that on every page click, a different set of 18 Mother's Day cards would be visible. As far as Google searches go, from the GCU Analytics page, three of the top four searches in the last two weeks were not very specific - "retirement cards" or "bridesmaid cards" is going to pick up many, many matches and randomisation within the results would be fairer here too.
 
"As for GCU Picks, we try to give broad and representative showing for a wide variety of art styles and artists.  We choose upcoming seasonal cards show the breadth of our offering (photo, different relations, humor, animals, new cards, older cards, etc) in hopes to catch the shopper's eye." from Mindy
 
There may be a "wide" variety of artists in "GCU Picks", but several artists are represented multiple times - nice for them but not great for the hundreds who are not. You say that "Newest" and "Most Popular" are lightly travelled (good!), but what about "GCU Picks" and "Best Sellers"? I must admit, previously if I was going through a shopping web site for the first time, I would certainly have looked at pages like this. I'm now on the other side of the looking glass, so now maybe I wouldn't.
 
In the interests of fairness, I would really like to see these pages go. Just in case anyone thinks that this is a case of sour grapes  Smiley , it's not! The last time I raised this point, I had a card in "Best Sellers" and now that I have chimed in again, I have one again (no, don't go and look for it!  Smiley ). I would just like to see a fair go for all.
 
Also, Mindy, please don't think that I am not aware and grateful for what you and all the GCU staff do. Whenever I or anyone else needs help, you immediately assist and I know that you are thinly spread over all your activities! I am also very happy to have this avenue to display my "art", such as it is, to the world.
 
Cheers,
 
 
Rosanne
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eugenia_131318
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Re: Most popular and newest views
Reply #16 - Apr 24th, 2008, 9:35pm
 
Please don't flame me - the following is just MY opinion
 
I'm not sure that the most popular etc cards are hurting anyone's sales, I do think we have to reconsider the over use of the multi tasked image- ONE image for EVERY occassion
I know its an old chestnut, but its not a good look for GCU and it may be hurting contributors.
       It doesn't do anyone any good to sacrifice quality for quantity.
 
Also, according to my site meter I haven't got a single sale from the "popular" pages - would love to hear of other's experience.
 
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Rosanne_132497
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Re: Most popular and newest views
Reply #17 - Apr 24th, 2008, 11:29pm
 
Quote from eugenia_131318 on Apr 24th, 2008, 9:35pm:
Please don't flame me - the following is just MY opinion

I'm not sure that the most popular etc cards are hurting anyone's sales, I do think we have to reconsider the over use of the multi tasked image- ONE image for EVERY occassion
I know its an old chestnut, but its not a good look for GCU and it may be hurting contributors.
It doesn't do anyone any good to sacrifice quality for quantity.

Also, according to my site meter I haven't got a single sale from the "popular" pages - would love to hear of other's experience.


 
My site meter is on my "home page' so I don't know either whether I ever received any sales from a click on either of my cards that have been on "Best Sellers" page.
 
Certainly NOT going to flame you Wink I agree with you about the use of the multiple images even though I have been one of the more minor offenders. I have used one image several times, usually for age-specific birthdays or for a coordinated series of bridesmaid, maid of honour, etc cards. I have actually had sales from this where someone seems to have purposely hunted down a coordinating set of cards to send out so, in certain cases, the general public may actually like it. I certainly try not to use the same image across many multiple categories. If I have, then "mea culpa"!
 
If GCU institute a policy of no repeat images, then I will happily comply and remove the "duplicates". I agree that seeing the same image fifty times is not good.
 
Cheers,
 
 
Rosanne
 
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eugenia_131318
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Re: Most popular and newest views
Reply #18 - Apr 24th, 2008, 11:49pm
 
Thanks for the "no flame" reply Roseanne. I *HAD* put on my asbestos undies just in case Grin
 
Actually I don't mind a few "same image" ones  I have a few myself. But I do wonder when the same image is used from a 1 year old to 100 year old etc and then for every relative as well.
 
Anyway, don't take any notice of me,  I got an AWFUL lurgi from my DH and feeling miserable Shocked
 
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Rosanne_132497
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Re: Most popular and newest views
Reply #19 - Apr 25th, 2008, 12:25am
 
You're a scream, Eugenia!!  Grin  Definitely agree about the "every birthday" + "every relative". I must admit that I actually got rather bored when I have used the same image several times, so I don't actually do it nowadays.
 
Feel better very soon!! The dreaded lurgi is no fun at all.
 
All the very best,
 
 
Rosanne
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Norval_132688
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Re: Most popular and newest views
Reply #20 - Apr 25th, 2008, 7:06am
 
Hi, Rosanne and Eugenia,  I'm afraid I am becoming a multiple offender since I have been reading how the search engines for google and yahoo work.  What sales I've had have come in on a very specific engine search. very few if any browsers are buying my cards, so I am changing my opinion from what it was when I first came to GCU.  It's the age old conflict-----Whats artistic-----and the market place!
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Donna_131383
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Re: Most popular and newest views
Reply #21 - Apr 25th, 2008, 8:17am
 
Hi Norval  Smiley
 
You aren't an offender Wink  There are no "offenders" re's this current discussion on using the same image, etc.  
 
"Offenders" implies that someone is doing something WRONG.  What's being discussed is well within GCU's rules and guidelines - which could certainly change... but if it did, there would still be no "offenders" since the powers-that-be at GCU wouldn't allow "offenders!"  Grin  
 
Please don't allow yourself/your store to be pigeon-holed into negative labeling/opinion.
 
Best,
Donna
 
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Teri Francis_131425
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Re: Most popular and newest views
Reply #22 - Apr 25th, 2008, 10:23am
 
Hi to all ...
 
First of all thanks to Denise, Rosanne, Mindy, Norval, Eguenia, Donna and everyone else participating in this thread.  I was glad to see this topic come up for discussion, but it seems to have split into two separate topics ... 1) fair chance at exposure for ALL artists, and 2) the overuse of multi-task images.  
 
On issue #1 ... I have to agree with Denise and Rosanne.  I would like to see "most popular" and "best sellers" given the axe.  I think when the keyword search improvement comes on-line, that would be a much better tool for displaying results that would be "most likely to be purchased" by a shopper looking for specific types of cards than the current system.  The reality, which I understand, is that most sites do offer a "best sellers" or "best of" feature for shoppers to browse, but they are usually balanced by a "newest" and "random" option as well.  And it may be something that shopper's expect to find.  So, in that regard, it may not be in the best interest of the artists to do away with it completely ... but, as Denise, Rosanne and Norval suggested, provide some randomized showcase that would help others get some exposure.  
 
Also, in agreement with Rosanne ... and this is not about my cards -- I'm speaking strictly as a SHOPPER in this paragraph ... I want to see some other folks who have fantastic cards get a bit of exposure.  We all agree about the incredible pool of talent here ... but I'm afraid we're going to lose many, if we haven't already, because their cards are don't get much exposure/sales.  Some of the real gems I've found, I would never have come across if I had been shopping the way the current system directs the path.  It's kind of become a routine for me now when I'm browsing to go to "most popular" view ... then go to "Last" and work my way forward ... I've found cards that absolutely delighted me and artists who I had never yet heard of that way.  
 
On issue #2 ... the multi-task image is another one that I think could be improved or managed with just a bit of common sense.  I think the over-categorization and "Happy 87th Birthday or Whatever to My 3rd Cousin-In-Law-Twice-Removed-on-My-Mother's-Side" has gone way overboard.  But, in fairness to GCU, I recognize how they are trying to fine-tune the shopping experience.  But again, as a shopper, I generally don't want, and don't BUY, cards that are that specific.  I look for cards "for Her" or "for Him" ... maybe immediate family (Mom, Dad, Brother, etc.), but most of the time I find exactly the card I'm looking for because A) I like the cover art, B) the inside message says what's in my heart, or C) there's something about the card that will have special significance and meaning to the recipient ... whether or not it is designed or intended for that relative.  Most of my traditional card purchases are more general in nature, but personalized by the thought and consideration I gave in choosing it for that specific person.  I don't know how other shopper's decide, but that's how I do it ... and based on 1 year of sales here at GCU, it seems to be reflected in my stats ... the more general a card is in a "specific category" it seems to sell better and get more exposure than the highly refined and oh-so specific cards.  That's what I've seen.
 
Now as an artist, I absolutely HATE milling my cards for multiple categories.  I would much rather create a card that's specific to what I have in mind and let it stand and sell or wither and die within it's own category.  Initially, I did only one series of age-specific category cards (21,25, 30-75).  The only reason I did them was because a friend wanted a 70th birthday card for a male and couldn't find a masculine one at the time.  I liked the design I came up with for her, and so did she, so I lightly did that series and that was all I intended to do in that regard.  Only recently have I started doing more of this -- not because I want to -- yes, it bores me to tears and takes much of the enjoyment out of the creation process for me ... the main and only reason I've started doing this is to protect my work.  As some of you may recall, I was a bit ticked-off when I found knock-offs of cards that I intened to be very specific to an age, a gender, and a unique inside message taken by another artist and liberally peppered throughout dozens of age and relationship categories.  Yes, old history, but one that I will not tolerate being repeated.  So, if this is what I have to do to prevent that from happening again, so be it.  I don't like it, and I particularly don't like the reasons for which I feel pressured to do so.  And I've spoken privately with other artists who feel much the same about creating a card they like for a specific reason or occasion and letting it stand, but who also feel their cards don't stand much of a chance of being seen unless they repeat it ad-nauseum throughout all the categories.  I admire and respect those who have taken a stand to not do this with their cards, but sadly, I've watched some whose cards I truly love begin to lose hope.  For the record, I do also admire and appreciate all those who do enjoy creating cards for multiple categories.  I just wish we could find a way of balancing exposure for those who do not.  
 
That's my 2 cents, but it's probably worth less than that in US today   Smiley
 
Teri
 
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Rosanne_132497
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Re: Most popular and newest views
Reply #23 - Apr 25th, 2008, 12:58pm
 
Thanks for chiming in, Teri. You have summarised the situation in both cases very well.
 
Donna, certainly no "offenders" here!  Smiley
 
Cheers,
 
 
Rosanne
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Ernestine_131365
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Re: Most popular and newest views
Reply #24 - Apr 25th, 2008, 11:55pm
 
Quote from Mindy on Apr 24th, 2008, 1:02pm:

Note taken on your comments to fairness and widespread exposure.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Although a random sort sounds like a nice and fair approach, we feel strongly that the shopping pages should use a most likely to be purchased logic, which is the "most popular" formula. To balance this we provided shoppers with the "Newest" page sort option. . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

 
Quote:
. . . we feel strongly that the shopping pages should use a most likely to be purchased logic, which is the "most popular" formula."
?!??!?  Huh This is the circular reasoning we're talking about here!  It seems to be saying that 45,000 cards of 9000 artists "aren't likely to be purchased" because they don't fit into the "Most Popular" formula, which are the cards that HAVE been purchased!
 
Let's put the Coca Cola out front 'cause everyone buys Coke and hide the Orange Nehi in the back room. . . Gee I didn't even realize you had Orange Nehi!
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Donna_131383
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Re: Most popular and newest views
Reply #25 - Apr 26th, 2008, 7:08am
 
Quote from Ernestine_131365 on Apr 25th, 2008, 11:55pm:
Quote from Mindy on Apr 24th, 2008, 1:02pm:

Note taken on your comments to fairness and widespread exposure.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Although a random sort sounds like a nice and fair approach, we feel strongly that the shopping pages should use a most likely to be purchased logic, which is the "most popular" formula.  To balance this we provided shoppers with the "Newest" page sort option. . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .


Quote:
. . . we feel strongly that the shopping pages should use a most likely to be purchased logic, which is the "most popular" formula."
?!??!?  Huh This is the circular reasoning we're talking about here!  It seems to be saying that 45,000 cards of 9000 artists "aren't likely to be purchased" because they don't fit into the "Most Popular" formula, which are the cards that HAVE been purchased!

Let's put the Coca Cola out front 'cause everyone buys Coke and hide the Orange Nehi in the back room. . . Gee I didn't even realize you had Orange Nehi!

 
 
Ernestine - Succinctly stated!  Your analogy was a bullseye for me - thank you.  Smiley
 
Teri - Eloquently stated!  Thanks for organizing this thread.  I realized that I hadn't really posted about either topic, and it makes it so much easier!   Smiley  And I too respect the individual decisions of each person, whether I agree with them, or not.   Smiley
 
Anyway,
 
Re's #1.  I agree.  I think somewhere on the forum, I previously questioned why/how the "Most Popular" pages worked, etc. because I just didn't get it/understand the need for it, and thought it was slanted towards a few and against the majority.  Don't quite remember the reply given, but I do remember I didn't understand the magical equations or whatever. GCU does not offer a choice on these pages.  I feel sure that if they did, everyone would want a piece of that action  Wink
 
I still agree.
 
 
Re's #2.  (regarding using a single image on several categories, or whatever)
 
Choice.  At this time, GCU offers the same choice to everyone - sounds fair to me.  I'm getting the feeling that those who "don't" for whatever their reasons, would like to see GCU take the choice away from those who "do?"  If so, is that fair?  I don't think so.  
 
Actually, for me, both topics are about what is and what isn't "Fair."
 
There is no definitive answer that one way is better/right or worse/wrong than the other.  And "fairness" is usually a state of mind since almost everyone has their own slide ruler to measure it.
 
Best,
Donna
 
 
 
 
 
 
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« Last Edit: Apr 26th, 2008, 8:24am by Donna_131383 »  
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Rosanne_132497
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Re: Most popular and newest views
Reply #26 - Apr 26th, 2008, 1:44pm
 
Hi Donna,
 
I appreciate your wish to be even-handed but, as you said, this is about justice. Any decision/policy that favours the few over the majority cannot possibly be called "fair". Therefore, #1 in this round of posts i.e. the presence of the Most Popular, Most Visited, GCU Picks, Most Favorited, and Best Sellers, as well as organising categories by "Most Popular" is not really serving ALL artists at GCU - it serves the few.
 
#2, the use of an image multiple times, is more tenuous. At present, my understanding is GCU's policy is that an image can be used three times if there are no distinguishing words on the card front or as many times as you like if there are. The problem is that it is quite obvious that some images have been used in excess of 50 times and have been spread across many categories. Again, for the shopper that comes in off a very specific Google search, this may not be an issue. However, my example search "Mothers Day yellow rose" cited earlier in this thread yields only 33 cards in the results. Eleven of these are the exact same image - one third of the results, and it's not even a yellow rose (completely another issue that has been dealt with elsewhere)! Not good at all. This is not a swipe at this artist - she is not breaking the rules as they stand and the image is excellent - but it makes GCU look bad and, quite frankly obviates the reason why most shoppers would come to GCU which is for a more personal shopping experience. Maybe the multiple image policy needs to be revisited.
 
Cheers,
 
 
Rosanne
 
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Donna_131383
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Re: Most popular and newest views
Reply #27 - Apr 28th, 2008, 6:44am
 
Quote from Rosanne_132497 on Apr 26th, 2008, 1:44pm:
Hi Donna,

I appreciate your wish to be even-handed but, as you said, this is about justice. Any decision/policy that favours the few over the majority cannot possibly be called "fair". Therefore, #1 in this round of posts i.e. the presence of the Most Popular, Most Visited, GCU Picks, Most Favorited, and Best Sellers, as well as organising categories by "Most Popular" is not really serving ALL artists at GCU - it serves the few.

#2, the use of an image multiple times, is more tenuous. At present, my understanding is GCU's policy is that an image can be used three times if there are no distinguishing words on the card front or as many times as you like if there are. The problem is that it is quite obvious that some images have been used in excess of 50 times and have been spread across many categories. Again, for the shopper that comes in off a very specific Google search, this may not be an issue. However, my example search "Mothers Day yellow rose" cited earlier in this thread yields only 33 cards in the results. Eleven of these are the exact same image - one third of the results, and it's not even a yellow rose (completely another issue that has been dealt with elsewhere)! Not good at all. This is not a swipe at this artist - she is not breaking the rules as they stand and the image is excellent - but it makes GCU look bad and, quite frankly obviates the reason why most shoppers would come to GCU which is for a more personal shopping experience. Maybe the multiple image policy needs to be revisited.

Cheers,


Rosanne


 
Hi Rosanne,
 
Thank you for your reply Smiley
 
No, I didn't say it was about "justice."  Justice and Fair don't ALWAYS mean the same thing or always go hand in hand.  I used the word "fair."
 
I question whether you misread my stance on #1.  As I read your reply, I got the impression that you're trying to educate me as to what fairness is.  I already stated IMO what "fairness" is.  To be clear... I agreed with #1.
 
Re's #2.  Perhaps it should be revisited, and if GCU should decide to do that, then, fine.  My comments/position are about what it IS, not what it isn't, as well as a few observations.
 
Hope this makes my position clearer for you Smiley  I'm not one to go on and on about something on any forum, so this post will have to serve as my last word on the subject, at least for now.
 
Best,
Donna  
 
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Rosanne_132497
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Re: Most popular and newest views
Reply #28 - Apr 28th, 2008, 4:20pm
 
Mindy or Shaun,
 
I'm sure that we all could continue to discuss the two points that have been raised in this series of posts, but we are not in the position to actually change anything ourselves. Hearing from those who can effect change and do make the policies would be really good.
 
Thank you.
 
Cheers,
 
 
Rosanne
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Mindy
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Re: Most popular and newest views
Reply #29 - Apr 29th, 2008, 5:25pm
 
At this time we do not plan to change the Most Popular sort nor the Popular Cards page for a handful of reasons:
 
1. We have many important bigger hitters on our to do list
2. Shoppers are offered to view any page by  "Newest"
3. The Popular Cards page views are lightly viewed pages
4. Most of our shoppers are coming from search engines and do not shop via the "normal" shopping page paths
 
We'll keep in mind potential pages/views that would give broad and random exposure to all cards.  
 
I watch orders come across and am delighted at the number of new cards purchased.  I am amazed how many cards I've seen purchased on the actual day or handful of days after they've gotten approved!  I always think, whew, just in time.  Wink
 
As for the over use of identical to near identical images, it has been discussed to put some further limitations on it.  No decision at this time.  I'm sure there are just as many artists on both sides of the fence.
 
If an artist is content with using the same image for a laundry list of occasions as long as the cards are in different categories and vary with occasion specific text on the front, at this time, we are okay with it, not elated but okay with it.  Some artists prefer to use their artwork more sparingly, others do not.
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