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Category Ranking/Confusion? (Read 5737 times)
Diana_131887
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Category Ranking/Confusion?
Sep 25th, 2007, 11:15am
 
Yesterday out of curiosity & in the name of research I decided to Search under Christmas (aprox 49 pgs) and see where my 3 christmas design happen to fall (somewhere on pg 40+). H-m-m-m no wonder why I haven't sold any. Which made me wonder how are designs placed within the categories? Is it by: Popularity of the store or image as determined by clicks, reviews, sales? Which store has the most product? When the design was created & loaded? Is there a way for us  to boost the ranking?
 
Also on a different note I noticed while getting to page 40+ that there were a lot of non-christmassy images to the point where on some pages I thought I had accidentally clicked into a different category. I understand that some people are looking for non-traditional christmas designs like the Festivus cards, which is a fun alternative and definitely belongs here, but a lot of these didn't have a hint or reference to the winter holidays on the front or inside which just made me wonder why they came up under Christmas.
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Diana_131887
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Re: Category Ranking/Confusion?
Reply #1 - Sep 25th, 2007, 11:29am
 
"...reference to the winter holidays on the front or inside..."
I should correct myself and say "didn't have any reference to the christmas holiday or season". As Christmas happens in the tropics and all over the world... not just in winter.
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Mindy
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Re: Category Ranking/Confusion?
Reply #2 - Sep 27th, 2007, 4:56pm
 
There are two different ways that the shopping pages are displayed and it depends on how you've gotten there.
 
If via onsite search words, there's a search algorithm based on matches to the search words:  This ranks cards based on matches to the cards keywords, card title, inside verse, category and more.
 
The best matched cards based on points are displayed first.  That's why as you page through (deep into page 40+) the cards become less relevant.  Chances are if a shopper doesn't find what they're looking for in the first page or two they're going somewhere else.  
 
If via clicking thru Categories, there's a "Popular Cards" formula.  This formula is a combination of factors like sales, inside verse, clicks, cards in cart, rating, comments, favorited, GCU pick, and more.  
 
As for somewhat relevant cards, Festivus for example.  You'll notice those cards are not only in a Christmas sub-category but also have Christmas as a keyword.  Agree, not the most fitted match for someone searching for "Christmas" but they're on page 40.  Search for "Festivus" and they're on page 1.
 
Two comments on getting your cards more notice...
1. we're working on filters that shoppers can use to better sift through pages to find exactly what they want - like adult, humorous, newest, photography, verse/no verse and more.
 
2. you can see why it's very important to create your cards with great relevancy and specificity...card title, keywords, inner verse, category.
 
Hope that helps.  Let me know if you want to know more  Roll Eyes
Mindy
 
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Kerra_131306
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Re: Category Ranking/Confusion?
Reply #3 - Sep 28th, 2007, 4:05am
 
Quote from Mindy on Sep 27th, 2007, 4:56pm:
There are two different ways that the shopping pages are displayed and it depends on how you've gotten there.

Two comments on getting your cards more notice...
1. we're working on filters that shoppers can use to better sift through pages to find exactly what they want - like adult, humorous, newest, photography, verse/no verse and more.

2. you can see why it's very important to create your cards with great relevancy and specificity...card title, keywords, inner verse, category.

Hope that helps.  Let me know if you want to know more  Roll Eyes
Mindy


 
So, card titles are important, too?  I thought it was just the keywords??  Should I changed the titles to reflect the subject or theme?
-Kerra
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Icansketchu Paper Greeting Cards:
http://www.greetingcarduniverse.com/icansketchu
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Mindy
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Re: Category Ranking/Confusion?
Reply #4 - Sep 28th, 2007, 10:51am
 
Quote from Kerra_131306 on Sep 28th, 2007, 4:05am:
Quote from Mindy on Sep 27th, 2007, 4:56pm:
There are two different ways that the shopping pages are displayed and it depends on how you've gotten there.

Two comments on getting your cards more notice...
1. we're working on filters that shoppers can use to better sift through pages to find exactly what they want - like adult, humorous, newest, photography, verse/no verse and more.

2. you can see why it's very important to create your cards with great relevancy and specificity...card title, keywords, inner verse, category.

Hope that helps.  Let me know if you want to know more  Roll Eyes
Mindy



So, card titles are important, too?  I thought it was just the keywords??  Should I changed the titles to reflect the subject or theme?
-Kerra

 
Yes, card titles are important not only for the shopper to see at a glance but for our onsite search as well as any text content being important for search engines.  The more specific and descriptive the better.  They of course should be unique from other cards and reflect the artwork, event, recipient - in very few characters Wink
 
With a quick peek your card title seem to be right on target.
 
Mindy
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Kathy_131728
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Re: Category Ranking/Confusion?
Reply #5 - Sep 28th, 2007, 11:21am
 
Speaking of titles.  I updated a couple the other day, and it sounds like it would be a good idea to review them based on Mindy's post and maybe do more updating.  However, I noticed when I updated a title on a card that was originally in three categories, I lost one of the categories.  Is there any way to keep all three categories and still do a title update on a card?
Thanks.
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Diana_131906
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Re: Category Ranking/Confusion?
Reply #6 - Sep 29th, 2007, 9:47am
 
thanks for all the information everyone!!!! good to know!!!
 
Cheers,
Diana
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Lynne_131303
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Re: Category Ranking/Confusion?
Reply #7 - Nov 2nd, 2007, 7:46am
 
I need to hire a personal trainer (marketing) for my store. I don't have a huge inventory (and a lack of marketing savvy) due to time constraints and a "right brain"...but I'm trying to figure out how to give my cards higher ranking on the home page. I know it's been explained ad nauseam...
 
When I look at keywords used in the "most popular" cards, ie. the #1 (Thanksgiving card)...I see that "Thanksgiving" is used. This is the case with most of the highest ranked cards in the category.
 
Clicking on the "?" by "keywords" on my "manage cards" page to get advice on how to choose keywords...it says NOT to use the category name, or any words from the card title (ie. thanksgiving for Thanksgiving...etc.). If keywords matter a great deal in determining "relevancy" and "ranking", shouldn't the holiday name/event be a keyword. I'm confused.
 
I'm sure that other factors have come into play that have those cards at the forefront... I've have had some good sales, lately...but suspect that I might be doing a lot better if I could boost ranking on the home page???
 
Thanks for any advice!
 
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Mindy
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Re: Category Ranking/Confusion?
Reply #8 - Nov 2nd, 2007, 12:26pm
 
Hi Lynne,
You're on the right path, and yes it takes a lot of time and some online savvy to get this down.  We try to give guidance without you having to know what goes on behind the scenes, but most of us like to understand "why?"  Huh  I know I do.
 
The order in which cards are displayed when clicked through categories is based on
our popular formula which we continue to perfect.  Many factors go into it and these factors are weighted - so some are more influential than others.  The great thing is it takes data from all of our BigDates properties, not just GCU.
 
Many of these factors you do not have direct control over.  Keywords do NOT play a role here.  The top 5 influencers in the popular formula are...
Purchases
In Cart
Favorited
Inside Verse
GCU Picks
 
When I click on Holidays >> Thanksgiving category I notice right away that the top 6 cards have inner verses.  I can also tell you that these top 6 have also been purchased and the top 3 are Favorited.
http://www.greetingcarduniverse.com/shopping/cb.asp?cid=10
 
You can argue that the most popular formula creates a self fulfilling prophecy.  The most popular cards will continue to be the most popular cards because they get the most exposure.  To some extent that is true.  That's why we are working on a new feature for sub-sorting.  It will help the shopper sort by characteristics like newest, card type (adult, humorous, etc.), as well as age and more!  Keep your eye out for a post on this soon.
 
Now, the order in which cards are displayed when using our onsite search is different.  The goal is to display the more RELEVANT cards first not the most popular.  This is where card title, keywords, inside text, artist name, profile and category come into play and is extremely dependent on the exact search words the shopper uses.  It does use some elements of the popular formula but it's a minor influence.
 
The reason we suggest not to use the occasion name for example in your keywords is that we use the most influential occurrences for the search word match.  Similar to multiple occurrences, repeated keywords are not necessary since duplicates are ignored and doesn't weight the card differently.  
 
For example, a Thanksgiving card in the Thanksgiving category with Thanksgiving in the title and inner verse as well as in the keywords and profiled for Thanksgiving does not necessarily produce any higher ranking for search word Thanksgiving than a card simply in the Thanksgiving category with no other occurrences of the word.
 
More specific search words get more complicated and produce much different results.  That's when search really works for the shopper.  For example:  Thanksgiving family leaves
 
You certainly can add these words to your keywords however in most cases it will be ignored.  The chances that you have Thanksgiving in the keywords and not in the related category or profile is quite small, so in most if not all cases it would be ignored.  Also, keywords is a limited space field, we suggest you better use your characters for words that better describe the image/art on your card.
 
I know that's much more than you asked for but hope it helps you and others!
Mindy
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Lynne_131303
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Re: Category Ranking/Confusion?
Reply #9 - Nov 2nd, 2007, 7:09pm
 
I appreciate the time you took to enlighten me. Some of it is still murky...but that's my fault. I think things are starting to move along and it's exciting. Just wish I had more time to devote.
 
Thanks again...and I, too, hope others out there benefit from your reply.
 
 SmileyLynne
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Lynne_131303
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Re: Category Ranking/Confusion?
Reply #10 - Nov 10th, 2007, 11:59am
 
Mindy & all,
 
I honestly don't want to make a nuisance of myself....but, I want to try and understand this. Recently, I had an order for 150 of one of my holiday cards "Peace", (which absolutely thrilled me), and have since created several Christmas cards, mindful of including appropriate titles, keywords, category designations etc. etc.
 
Still, when I go to the "Paper Cards" page, scroll down to Holidays>Christmas...as I would do as a consumer looking for a Christmas card, I went through pages and pages of cards...and gave up before I ever saw the Peace card...or any others except for the "Snowmoon" card. I encountered several Festivus cards (one on pg.2)...a "Peace Now" card on pg.2, a "Sunflower" card on pg.4, "Carnation Mosaic" on pg.6, "Happy Spring" on pg.7, "Pumpkin Patch" on pg.8, "Little Ballerinas" on p10, "Framed 4th of July" on pg.11, "Sunset" pg.12, "Loves Glow" pg.12, "I Need You" pg.13, "Free Falling"pg.14, "two Bunnies" pg.15, "Chili Peppers" pg15, etc. etc....and, like I said...gave up trying to find my cards.
 
This is not a rant. There are so many beautiful (and relevant) Christmas cards, and I am trying like the dickens to understand why a "Sunset" or "Happy Spring" card would take up precious space in the first 10 or so pages of the category!?
 
Any comments from others out there? Please understand that I am not being confrontational...just trying to "get it"! undecided
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Mindy
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Re: Category Ranking/Confusion?
Reply #11 - Nov 13th, 2007, 1:24pm
 
Quote from Lynne_131303 on Nov 10th, 2007, 11:59am:
Mindy & all,

I honestly don't want to make a nuisance of myself....but, I want to try and understand this. Recently, I had an order for 150 of one of my holiday cards "Peace", (which absolutely thrilled me), and have since created several Christmas cards, mindful of including appropriate titles, keywords, category designations etc. etc.

Still, when I go to the "Paper Cards" page, scroll down to Holidays>Christmas...as I would do as a consumer looking for a Christmas card, I went through pages and pages of cards...and gave up before I ever saw the Peace card...or any others except for the "Snowmoon" card. I encountered several Festivus cards (one on pg.2)...a "Peace Now" card on pg.2, a "Sunflower" card on pg.4, "Carnation Mosaic" on pg.6, "Happy Spring" on pg.7, "Pumpkin Patch" on pg.8, "Little Ballerinas" on p10, "Framed 4th of July" on pg.11, "Sunset" pg.12, "Loves Glow" pg.12, "I Need You" pg.13, "Free Falling"pg.14, "two Bunnies" pg.15, "Chili Peppers" pg15, etc. etc....and, like I said...gave up trying to find my cards.

This is not a rant. There are so many beautiful (and relevant) Christmas cards, and I am trying like the dickens to understand why a "Sunset" or "Happy Spring" card would take up precious space in the first 10 or so pages of the category!?

Any comments from others out there? Please understand that I am not being confrontational...just trying to "get it"! undecided

Hi Lynne,
No worries on your questions.  There are other artists surely with the same curiosity.  
 
Overall, have faith that there is a logical rhyme & reason to the card order presentation.  We've painstakingly created logic that will constantly be improved to give shoppers the best experience.
 
A couple of notes...
1. New cards will nearly always appear on the last pages in categories (since their clicks, purchases, favorites, etc. are likely to be low or 0)
 
2. New cards will often appear lower than existing cards in onsite search results (for the same reasons above)
 
Remember in my prior post I mentioned we're working on ways to give new cards their time in the limelight.
 
3. From your post, it sounds like some of the cards you saw were categorized incorrectly.  Certainly not a first.  
 
Very Important - We use the honor system relying on artists to correctly categorize their cards.  It's in everyone's best interests for the right cards to be in the right category and show up for the correct keywords.  Shame on those artists that purposely miscategorize to give their card more exposure (see my pointed finger waving?).
 
We are constantly weeding and recategorizing if necessary but with 20,0000 cards and growing and other top items on our wish list it's not a task we dedicate a lot of man power to.  
 
FYI...
Your Peace card is on page 15 out of 50 pages, which is in the top 30% of all Christmas cards.  Your new Joyful Noise card is on page 25 or 50 pages, right at 50% which is actually pretty good for a new card.
 
Most of our biggest bulk orders are coming in via the search engines, so with that in mind the order in which cards appear in the categories is a non issue.
 
Hope that helps and here's to more big orders!
 
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Lynne_131303
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Re: Category Ranking/Confusion?
Reply #12 - Nov 13th, 2007, 4:12pm
 
Thank you, Mindy. I’m always somewhat reluctant to make posts like the previous...because I am mindful of the fact that your job has to be daunting (to put it mildly), with so many participants, stores, details etc. etc., which is a reflection of the huge success of GCU. The last thing I want to do is add to your headache! I am so grateful to have this opportunity, and truly admire your (& GCU staff) ability to keep such a huge (global) enterprise as smoothly running as you do, and still maintain  personal contact & individual service.
 
Thanks again for your time and patience...and ditto, here’s to more bulk sales for everyone!
 
Lynne Smiley
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Jessica_132519
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Re: Category Ranking/Confusion?
Reply #13 - Nov 13th, 2007, 6:30pm
 
I'm a newbie here!  Shocked
I just wanted to put my 2 cents in on the categories... I find them VERY daunting... The ones I have, I have only placed them in one category... I like making cards that are pretty safe for anyone and everyone... I so far have not made age/gender specific cards yet to utilize the other categories.  
 
Other than that... I <3 the site!!!!!  Grin
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Mindy
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Re: Category Ranking/Confusion?
Reply #14 - Nov 15th, 2007, 2:03pm
 
Hi Jessica,
Welcome!  We do have loads of categories and the list grows every day.  GCUniverse is well on our way to being the largest and most varied cardstore around.  
 
Don't let the categories intimidate you  Shocked  Take your time.  Focus on a few that you can relate to and go from there.
 
If you have a talent for Spanish cards (your Feliz Navidad is very nice) consider creating some for all types of events and card sending occassions.  We could use more cards in our Spanish cards Collection:
http://www.greetingcarduniverse.com/shopping/cb.asp?cid=412
 
Do keep in mind that cards with inside verses will get more exposure than those left blank inside.
 
Good luck and thanks for joining!
Mindy
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