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Convert Images to RGB (Read 2629 times)
Mindy
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Convert Images to RGB
Mar 20th, 2007, 12:53pm
 
Photoshop users -  make sure your image has been converted to RGB, as most popular browsers can not view CMYK images.
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Thomas_131817
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Re: Convert Images to RGB
Reply #1 - Aug 1st, 2007, 9:43am
 
Hi Mindy:
 
Does that mean you convert to CMYK when you print?
 
Thom
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PJ_132733
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Re: Convert Images to RGB
Reply #2 - Dec 22nd, 2007, 12:36am
 
I am surprised and a bit trouble over the RGB thang. The artist (maybe one with a print background like myself) goes through the trouble of specing colors. Say a red of C15/Y100/M100/15. Once the image is converted to RGB and then back to CMYK for print, the colors then spec out to the following CMYK colors, C20/Y97/M98/K8. The colors may be close but not what the artist spec'd. No matter how slight, it means the copy changed.  
 
RGB black typically converts to C75/M68/Y67/K90 (I've seen even heavier combinations). No one color is 100% and it a mud mix. A rich or support black is not usually that heavy, and never has that much yellow, which usually adds a greenish cast to what is supposed to be black.
 
This statement was copied off of a printer's web page:
RGB:
Red, Green, and Blue. These are most commonly used with television screens and computer monitors but are not used in offset printing. RGB files should be converted to CMYK. Colors may need to be adjusted after the conversion and may not appear correct on your monitor.  
 
So how are the cards printed? On a press or via color laser? Most prepress technicians cringe when they see this RGB black, the footprint is unavoidable. Getting a reasonable black mix to print isn't always easy. Back to the question, how are they printed, that's the defining question as to how will the cards look. Color laser printer compensate for the mud colored black mix. I would guess that a coating is then put down on the cards to disguise the laser output, whether it be a glossy UV coating or a matte aqueous coating. Not to mention a fair amount of bleed would need to be included in the file to account for the laser printer's inaccuracy when printing multiple sheets of the same card (registration on a press is more consistant), accounting for the slight shift in position from sheet to sheet.  
 
What color profiles are used for CMYK conversion. Are there UCR/GCR presets that can be made available?
 
Here's a radical thought, what if artists were able to submit press ready pdf files? Browsers handle them nicely, even when they are CMYK (I send out pdf files all the time, and have heard no complaints about color space), the size is would usually be smaller than the 3.85 megabyte limit set on jpg files. Or the artist could submit two files, a press ready pdf with the colors spec'd out as intended, and a RGB jpg file for the browser. The jpg could be e-card size, whether or not it's made available as an e-card. Then the press ready pdf file could go off to be set down in the page layout software for printing and the jpg for easy web viewing.
 
Does GCU ever have to tweak a file because the black is put down too heavy? What about resizing the files for e-cards? If so, is the card re-saved as a jpg with more lossy compression artifacts, or is the file saved out into another format to prevent additional lossy compression artifacts (before being re-saved as a jpg)? I suspect no tweaking is done by GCU, but this is a reasonable question.
 
As a print professional, I see a lot of file issues every day.
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Ernestine_131365
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Re: Convert Images to RGB
Reply #3 - Dec 25th, 2007, 10:25am
 
PJ-
 
This looks like your first post on the forum, so I thought I'd chime in on the subject. As a print-pro myself, I was a little concerned about the CMYK/RGB thing myself.  The first cards I put up (I've been with GCU since the early days) were designed in CMYK for offset print and I changed them to RGB per GCU's requirements.  When I got my first printed card, I was impressed by the quality, but the image was heavy on the black, which I actually expected.  The cards are obviously laser printed, it's really the only way to be cost effective with this type of "print-on-demand" site.
 
Now, when I design cards for GCU, I switch my monitor over to a calibration I've set up specifically for RGB laser print.  Cards I've received designed with this method have printed with "right-on" color match.  There's still the issue of EXACT placement and bleed sometimes . . . but, the the GCU "powers that be" are working on perhaps a new template allowing for bleed and providing more accurate placement.
 
Have you ordered your "free sample" card? Check out the results!
 
-Ernestine
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Patricia_131634
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Re: Convert Images to RGB
Reply #4 - Dec 26th, 2007, 12:22pm
 
Ernestine-
 
Would you be willing to elaborate on your recent post about calibrating your monitor for RGB laser output? I'll bet others would be interested in hearing. Are you using third-party calibration software?  
 
I'm doing my test prints on a Phaser solid ink printer (printing CMYK, of course) and while they look great, I am somewhat confused: design in RGB, view on a monitor calibrated to a CMYK solid ink printer and hope that the results on a laser CMYK = a true-to-the-original-photo card. Any input would be greatly appreciated.
 
Thanks, and a Happy and Prosperous New Year to you!
Pat
Will Davis Studios
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Shaun_131054
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Re: Convert Images to RGB
Reply #5 - Dec 28th, 2007, 4:19pm
 
Quote from PJ_132733 on Dec 22nd, 2007, 12:36am:
I am surprised and a bit trouble over the RGB thang. The artist (maybe one with a print background like myself) goes through the trouble of specing colors. Say a red of C15/Y100/M100/15. Once the image is converted to RGB and then back to CMYK for print, the colors then spec out to the following CMYK colors, C20/Y97/M98/K8. The colors may be close but not what the artist spec'd. No matter how slight, it means the copy changed.

RGB black typically converts to C75/M68/Y67/K90 (I've seen even heavier combinations). No one color is 100% and it a mud mix. A rich or support black is not usually that heavy, and never has that much yellow, which usually adds a greenish cast to what is supposed to be black.

This statement was copied off of a printer's web page:
RGB:
Red, Green, and Blue. These are most commonly used with television screens and computer monitors but are not used in offset printing. RGB files should be converted to CMYK. Colors may need to be adjusted after the conversion and may not appear correct on your monitor.

So how are the cards printed? On a press or via color laser? Most prepress technicians cringe when they see this RGB black, the footprint is unavoidable. Getting a reasonable black mix to print isn't always easy. Back to the question, how are they printed, that's the defining question as to how will the cards look. Color laser printer compensate for the mud colored black mix. I would guess that a coating is then put down on the cards to disguise the laser output, whether it be a glossy UV coating or a matte aqueous coating. Not to mention a fair amount of bleed would need to be included in the file to account for the laser printer's inaccuracy when printing multiple sheets of the same card (registration on a press is more consistant), accounting for the slight shift in position from sheet to sheet.

What color profiles are used for CMYK conversion. Are there UCR/GCR presets that can be made available?

Here's a radical thought, what if artists were able to submit press ready pdf files? Browsers handle them nicely, even when they are CMYK (I send out pdf files all the time, and have heard no complaints about color space), the size is would usually be smaller than the 3.85 megabyte limit set on jpg files. Or the artist could submit two files, a press ready pdf with the colors spec'd out as intended, and a RGB jpg file for the browser. The jpg could be e-card size, whether or not it's made available as an e-card. Then the press ready pdf file could go off to be set down in the page layout software for printing and the jpg for easy web viewing.

Does GCU ever have to tweak a file because the black is put down too heavy? What about resizing the files for e-cards? If so, is the card re-saved as a jpg with more lossy compression artifacts, or is the file saved out into another format to prevent additional lossy compression artifacts (before being re-saved as a jpg)? I suspect no tweaking is done by GCU, but this is a reasonable question.

As a print professional, I see a lot of file issues every day.

 
Hi PJ,
First off welcome to the forum!  The cards are printed on a laser printer, then coated with either a matte or glossy UV finish.  
 
We are currently in the process of conducting tests to determine how much bleed should be added to account for inaccuracies in the printing and cutting of the card.   At the moment we ask that you keep all text and fine detail .25 inches away from the edges just to be safe.  This may change in the near future.    
 
With regard to file types, JPG images using RGB colors is the only format that we can accept at this time.  This is a requirement set by our fulfillment partner.  
 
We do not make changes to the files that you upload for paper greeting cards.  For eCards, the images are saved with low compression so there isn't much loss.  We use a resizing algorithm to scale the images down proportionally to minimize loss of detail.  
 
If you have any additional questions, please let us know.  
 
Shaun
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Ernestine_131365
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Re: Convert Images to RGB
Reply #6 - Dec 28th, 2007, 7:10pm
 
PJ & Patricia--
 
There have been a lot of questions on various forums regarding technical graphic design and printing issues.  I come from a print background way before computers were even around (remember "waxing," "paste-up," "rubylith & amberlith," "specing copy and sending it to a typesetter?" "bluelines?" . . . most of us don't)  I guess my age is showing.
 
I don't know if the GCU forum is the place to discuss ALL these design issues.  There are so many. I'm all for supporting other artists in creating the best images possible in GCU. . . I think it helps all of us to have quality output across the board.  But we all use different software, hardware and programs.  The GCU staff has -always been very helpful.
 
I sent you both e-mails expanding MY experience if it helps answering any questions.
 
E(g)
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