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Which way to orientate American Flag bunting Help (Read 880 times)
Natalie_152060
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Which way to orientate American Flag bunting Help
May 30th, 2019, 9:51am
 
Hi everyone,  
 
I recently designed an American Independence Day card which includes some bunting using the American Flag design and someone has raised the question with me with regards to the way the flag is orientated on the bunting, and says that the way I have it makes it look like a 'fallen' flag.
 
I added the graphic of the bunting exactly as it was in the graphic. I have of course consulted google, but have not come up with a definitive answer so far to the question.  
 
With regards to images of American Flag bunting, another google search, it seems to be shown both ways, with the stars to the right, and with the stars to the left. If anything there are more images of the bunting with the flag orientated the way I have it at present, rather than the way that has been suggested to me that I should have it.
 
It is no problem for me to change the orientation, but I don't want to change it only for someone else to say that the new way round is wrong.
 
If anyone could help me on this that would be great.
 
Many thanks
 
Natalie
 
If you'd like to check out the card, it's here: https://www.greetingcarduniverse.com/holiday-cards/fourth-of-july-cards/general- fourth-of-july/independence-day-flags-1570992?aid=152060
 
 
 
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Ramelle_149580
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Re: Which way to orientate American Flag bunting H
Reply #1 - May 30th, 2019, 10:13am
 
Hi, Natalie~ Check this out. It may help you find the answer to your question. Apparently, from the viewers' viewpoint, a flag hung vertically should have the stars (called the "Union") on the top, left side.  https://www.michigan.gov/dmva/0,4569,7-126-8323-20788--F,00.html
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Natalie_152060
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Re: Which way to orientate American Flag bunting H
Reply #2 - May 30th, 2019, 2:58pm
 
Quote from Ramelle_149580 on May 30th, 2019, 10:13am:
Hi, Natalie~ Check this out. It may help you find the answer to your question. Apparently, from the viewers' viewpoint, a flag hung vertically should have the stars (called the "Union") on the top, left side. †https://www.michigan.gov/dmva/0,4569,7-126-8323-20788--F,00.html

 
Thanks Ramelle Smiley. I did check out the link but am still confused 😐  When they say North or East, donít they mean top or right? I knew I should have paid more attention in geography classes when I was in school 😝
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Doreen_137017
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Re: Which way to orientate American Flag bunting H
Reply #3 - May 30th, 2019, 3:36pm
 
If I remember correctly, GCU wishes for the American flag to always show in what would be considered the proper way, so Union Stars would always be on the left if placed horizontal or on the top if placed vertically.
 
So, at GCU, fallen flag look or not, the flag bunting placement would be correct.
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Natalie_152060
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Re: Which way to orientate American Flag bunting H
Reply #4 - May 31st, 2019, 12:32am
 
Quote from Doreen_137017 on May 30th, 2019, 3:36pm:
If I remember correctly, GCU wishes for the American flag to always show in what would be considered the proper way, so Union Stars would always be on the left if placed horizontal or on the top if placed vertically.

So, at GCU, fallen flag look or not, the flag bunting placement would be correct.

 
Oh, so do you mean it doesnít matter whether the Union stars are on the left or right, as long as they are at the top?
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Stacia_208183
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Re: Which way to orientate American Flag bunting H
Reply #5 - May 31st, 2019, 5:37am
 
The rules in the code are clear about where the "canton" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canton_(flag) - the rectangular area at the top hoist corner of a flag - should appear in "real life". (Uniform Flag Code - https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/4/7).  
 
The code recognizes there's a complication when the flag can be seen from two directions, such as over a street, so it includes rules for if a street is north-south or east-west, so there's some uniformity in how it's presented. Nevertheless, when at a public event and folks look up and possibly see a canton on the top right, they might get upset because they don't know the subtleties.  
 
Deciding how to replicate the 3-D world on 2-D image is tricky when trying to portray a flag that could be seen from two directions if it were real life but can only be viewed one way on a card. On a card, an artist might be demonstrating real-life situation where the Canton is indeed flying properly* but might seem backwards from what is permitted with the flag is viewed on a wall, for example. It can upset folks as they think it might be wrong. However, it seems GCU understands this and permits it to be shown both ways when shown vertically.
 
*Your card is demonstrating what a person would see if walking west on an east-west street, or if that person was walking north on a north-south street.  
 
Trivia - Some interesting reading here that explains why the flag appears the way it does on military uniforms - https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2014/03/11/ask-the-expert-is-the-american-flag
-backward-on-scout-uniforms/
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Doreen_137017
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Re: Which way to orientate American Flag bunting H
Reply #6 - May 31st, 2019, 6:42am
 
No, I believe I said as long as they are ALWAYS on the LEFT.
 
Quote from Natalie_152060 on May 31st, 2019, 12:32am:
Quote from Doreen_137017 on May 30th, 2019, 3:36pm:
If I remember correctly, GCU wishes for the American flag to always show in what would be considered the proper way, so Union Stars would always be on the left if placed horizontal or on the top if placed vertically.

So, at GCU, fallen flag look or not, the flag bunting placement would be correct.


Oh, so do you mean it doesnít matter whether the Union stars are on the left or right, as long as they are at the top? †

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Natalie_152060
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Re: Which way to orientate American Flag bunting H
Reply #7 - May 31st, 2019, 7:43am
 
Thanks.  
 
Quote from Stacia_208183 on May 31st, 2019, 5:37am:
The rules in the code are clear about where the "canton" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canton_(flag) - the rectangular area at the top hoist corner of a flag - should appear in "real life". (Uniform Flag Code - https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/4/7).

The code recognizes there's a complication when the flag can be seen from two directions, such as over a street, so it includes rules for if a street is north-south or east-west, so there's some uniformity in how it's presented. Nevertheless, when at a public event and folks look up and possibly see a canton on the top right, they might get upset because they don't know the subtleties.

Deciding how to replicate the 3-D world on 2-D image is tricky when trying to portray a flag that could be seen from two directions if it were real life but can only be viewed one way on a card. On a card, an artist might be demonstrating real-life situation where the Canton is indeed flying properly* but might seem backwards from what is permitted with the flag is viewed on a wall, for example. It can upset folks as they think it might be wrong. However, it seems GCU understands this and permits it to be shown both ways when shown vertically.

*Your card is demonstrating what a person would see if walking west on an east-west street, or if that person was walking north on a north-south street.

Trivia - Some interesting reading here that explains why the flag appears the way it does on military uniforms - https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2014/03/11/ask-the-expert-is-the-american-flag
-backward-on-scout-uniforms/

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Natalie_152060
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Re: Which way to orientate American Flag bunting H
Reply #8 - May 31st, 2019, 8:03am
 
Ah sorry, I didn't make myself clear did I lol, I was referring to the part of your statement that said '... or on the top if placed vertically'  
 
So the bunting on my design has all the flags hanging down vertically from a horizontal rope, hence why I thought the Union stars could be left or right, as long as they were at the top.
 
I don't know if it's my age or what, but I'm getting more confused by the minute  Grin
 
My logic tells me that in real life, if the flags on bunting are hanging vertically from a rope that's horizontal - maybe right across a street - then as people walked towards the bunting and could see the Union stars top left, as soon as they walked under the bunting and then turned to look at the bunting now behind them, the Union stars, from that side would appear top right, but it's the being at the top that counts, because it would just depend from which direction the bunting was being viewed. Which I think is what Stacia's response is referencing.
 
However, I'm thinking now that I will flip the graphic after all as maybe having the Union stars top left, even though the flags are hanging down vertically, might work better.
 
 
Quote from Doreen_137017 on May 31st, 2019, 6:42am:
No, I believe I said as long as they are ALWAYS on the LEFT.

Quote from Natalie_152060 on May 31st, 2019, 12:32am:
Quote from Doreen_137017 on May 30th, 2019, 3:36pm:
If I remember correctly, GCU wishes for the American flag to always show in what would be considered the proper way, so Union Stars would always be on the left if placed horizontal or on the top if placed vertically.

So, at GCU, fallen flag look or not, the flag bunting placement would be correct.


Oh, so do you mean it doesnít matter whether the Union stars are on the left or right, as long as they are at the top? †


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Doreen_137017
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Re: Which way to orientate American Flag bunting H
Reply #9 - May 31st, 2019, 8:17am
 
Let me try explaining it this way,  maybe it will click for you Smiley  
 
The American flag is always HUNG by it's left side, i.e., where the Union stars are placed. So, no matter whether it's vertical or horizontally flown, it is ALWAYS HUNG on the side with the union stars. The only time it should ever be seen with the stars effectively viewed on the right is when the wind has blown the flag, reversing it's appearance.
 
Does that help?
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Natalie_152060
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Re: Which way to orientate American Flag bunting H
Reply #10 - May 31st, 2019, 8:37am
 
Yes, I get that bit, and the flags are indeed hanging from the flags left side, the confusing bit is when the flags are hanging downwards vertically, (with the left side attached to the horizontal rope) do the stars specifically need to be on the left or the right.  Anyway, I decided to flip the graphic. What I really need now is a cup of tea!  Grin
 
Quote from Doreen_137017 on May 31st, 2019, 8:17am:
Let me try explaining it this way, †maybe it will click for you Smiley

The American flag is always HUNG by it's left side, i.e., where the Union stars are placed. So, no matter whether it's vertical or horizontally flown, it is ALWAYS HUNG on the side with the union stars. The only time it should ever be seen with the stars effectively viewed on the right is when the wind has blown the flag, reversing it's appearance.

Does that help?

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Doreen_137017
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Re: Which way to orientate American Flag bunting H
Reply #11 - May 31st, 2019, 9:03am
 
Good choice!  
 
Found this: When hung over a street or on a wall without a flag pole or staff, hang the US flag vertically with the union to the north or east. Over a sidewalk, the union should be farthest from the building. The US flag may be displayed vertically or horizontally. The union (stars) should be at the top to the observer's left.
 
Quote from Natalie_152060 on May 31st, 2019, 8:37am:
Yes, I get that bit, and the flags are indeed hanging from the flags left side, the confusing bit is when the flags are hanging downwards vertically, (with the left side attached to the horizontal rope) do the stars specifically need to be on the left or the right. †Anyway, I decided to flip the graphic. What I really need now is a cup of tea! †Grin

Quote from Doreen_137017 on May 31st, 2019, 8:17am:
Let me try explaining it this way, †maybe it will click for you Smiley

The American flag is always HUNG by it's left side, i.e., where the Union stars are placed. So, no matter whether it's vertical or horizontally flown, it is ALWAYS HUNG on the side with the union stars. The only time it should ever be seen with the stars effectively viewed on the right is when the wind has blown the flag, reversing it's appearance.

Does that help?


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Card_Review_Team
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Re: Which way to orientate American Flag bunting H
Reply #12 - May 31st, 2019, 9:17am
 
Hi Natalie,
 
We apologize for not picking up on the orientation of the flags hanging from the banner on the review.  
We see that you have changed the union to the correct position now and wanted to affirm that this is correct for other artists moving forward.  
It is important to note that to be truly in line with flag etiquette the flag should not be used as a bunting and instead a bunting of blue, white, and red should be used.
 
There is more information here on the use as bunting and as others quoted some guidance on orientation -http://www.usflag.org/uscode36.html
"(d) The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery. It should never be festooned, drawn back, nor up, in folds, but always allowed to fall free. Bunting of blue, white, and red, always arranged with the blue above, the white in the middle, and the red below, should be used for covering a speaker's desk, draping the front of the platform, and for decoration in general."
 
 
 
 
We hope that is helpful to all.
Enjoy your well-deserved tea, Natalie.
 
Ella  
Reviewer 758
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Natalie_152060
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Re: Which way to orientate American Flag bunting H
Reply #13 - May 31st, 2019, 9:32am
 

Ah now that really would solve the problem lol. I can definitely change it to just blue, white and red instead. Would it be okay to go with, plain white, blue with stars, and red and white stripes? I think that would look good.  
 
The funny thing is that originally the bunting graphic I chose was of flipflops (well thatís what we call them over here in the UK) and I changed it to the flags as I was concerned flipflop bunting might look too frivolous lol.  
 
Iím beginning to wish itíd stuck with the flipflops lol. However, whatís so good about all of this is what we learn along the way. No matter how old I get, I love to keep, learning Smiley
 
 
Quote from Card_Review_Team on May 31st, 2019, 9:17am:
Hi Natalie,

We apologize for not picking up on the orientation of the flags hanging from the banner on the review.
We see that you have changed the union to the correct position now and wanted to affirm that this is correct for other artists moving forward.
It is important to note that to be truly in line with flag etiquette the flag should not be used as a bunting and instead a bunting of blue, white, and red should be used.

There is more information here on the use as bunting and as others quoted some guidance on orientation -http://www.usflag.org/uscode36.html
"(d) The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery. It should never be festooned, drawn back, nor up, in folds, but always allowed to fall free. Bunting of blue, white, and red, always arranged with the blue above, the white in the middle, and the red below, should be used for covering a speaker's desk, draping the front of the platform, and for decoration in general."




We hope that is helpful to all.
Enjoy your well-deserved tea, Natalie.

Ella
Reviewer 758

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