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Cards using Scripture verses (Read 7131 times)
Stanley_134646
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Cards using Scripture verses
Mar 30th, 2012, 8:14am
 
Just had several cards declined due to copyright issues, with the instruction to use a Bible which is not copyrighted. Using Scripture verses is a major part of the cards I design, and I've never had a problem before now (and I've sold more than 2,200 cards here). I mainly use the NIV, and on the copyright page, permission is granted:
 
"The NIV text may be quoted and/or reprinted up to and inclusive of one thousand (1,000) verses without express written permission of the publisher, providing the verses quoted do not amount to a complete book of the Bible nor do the verses quoted account for 50% or more of the total work in which they are quoted."
 
Any one else have this problem? Suggestions as to what to do?
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Tracey_180471
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Re: Cards using Scripture verses
Reply #1 - Mar 30th, 2012, 8:18am
 
Wow, some of these reviewers need to get a grip, seriously.  Pretty sure the gospels are free to quote! A lot of us do it from memory, not from a specific Bible. Wink  I also use scriptures in a lot of my cards and have never had an issue here or anywhere else.   Good luck!
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SunAtNight_145914
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Re: Cards using Scripture verses
Reply #2 - Mar 30th, 2012, 8:30am
 
There is only 2 versions of the bible that is freely available to quote. Most of the organizations that publish also register for copyright. I just searched with a major search engine and came up with the World English Bible. It is in the public domain as per eBible.org. That site also states that the American Standard Version is also in the public domain.  
 
There is another thread on this topic in the forums somewhere.  
 
Yes, the organizations like their intellectual property just like everyone else.
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Tracey_180471
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Re: Cards using Scripture verses
Reply #3 - Mar 30th, 2012, 8:40am
 
Just got off the phone with my Pastor, because I was curious.  A specific Bible (the printed, published book) may be copyright, however the content is not.  You cannot grab a Bible and copy it word for word by hand or on a copier, that is copyright infringement, after all someone put in a lot of work to create that specific compilation of scriptures.   However, if you want to use ANY scriptures, you can always just use your own words (however you personally know the Bible) without any issues.  I do mine from what I know of the Bible scriptures, not from any one specific Bible.
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Tracie_152843
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Re: Cards using Scripture verses
Reply #4 - Mar 30th, 2012, 8:43am
 
There are many Bible translators that guard their copyright vigorously. Here's an article I found online that might be helpful. http://quezi.com/1802  
 
Also, using the forum at GCU is tricky. When you post a new thread it often says that there was an error and that your post didn't go through, but it actually did. Just close the window out and go back into the forums to see that it posted Smiley otherwise you will end up posting several threads with the same topic...trust me I know from experience  Grin
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Stanley_134646
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Re: Cards using Scripture verses
Reply #5 - Mar 30th, 2012, 8:49am
 
Since I DID follow the permissions guideline provided by the publisher, should I just resubmit and hope that a DIFFERENT reviewer gets it this time? Seriously, I need this resolved. I don't want to have to redesign more than 2000 cards to meet these "new" guidelines.  
 
Will close store rather than go to that hassle.
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SunAtNight_145914
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Re: Cards using Scripture verses
Reply #6 - Mar 30th, 2012, 8:51am
 
Quote from Tracey_180471 on Mar 30th, 2012, 8:18am:
Wow, some of these reviewers need to get a grip, seriously.  Pretty sure the gospels are free to quote! A lot of us do it from memory, not from a specific Bible. Wink  I also use scriptures in a lot of my cards and have never had an issue here or anywhere else.   Good luck!

 
You may use your own wording - but you should realize that there are many people who have memorized the exact phrasing. There is a chance that the memorization is from a book that is under copyright. There are not many organizations that use the public domain books.
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Stanley_134646
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Re: Cards using Scripture verses
Reply #7 - Mar 30th, 2012, 8:57am
 
Quote from SunAtNight_145914 on Mar 30th, 2012, 8:51am:
Quote from Tracey_180471 on Mar 30th, 2012, 8:18am:
Wow, some of these reviewers need to get a grip, seriously.  Pretty sure the gospels are free to quote! A lot of us do it from memory, not from a specific Bible. Wink  I also use scriptures in a lot of my cards and have never had an issue here or anywhere else.   Good luck!


You may use your own wording - but you should realize that there are many people who have memorized the exact phrasing. There is a chance that the memorization is from a book that is under copyright. There are not many organizations that use the public domain books.

 
 
Guys, I really do appreciate your replies. But you each seem to be ignoring my original question  Smiley You're trying to give me lessons on copyrighted Scripture. I am already aware of each of these. My question has to do with following the permission guidelines provided BY THE PUBLISHER. Shouldn't that be enough for GCU?  
 
And if it is not, if following the publisher's OWN guidelines for usage are not good enough for GCU, then what about the hundreds of cards I've already uploaded (AND SOLD)?
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SunAtNight_145914
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Re: Cards using Scripture verses
Reply #8 - Mar 30th, 2012, 9:01am
 
Quote from Stanley_134646 on Mar 30th, 2012, 8:49am:
Since I DID follow the permissions guideline provided by the publisher, should I just resubmit and hope that a DIFFERENT reviewer gets it this time? Seriously, I need this resolved. I don't want to have to redesign more than 2000 cards to meet these "new" guidelines.

Will close store rather than go to that hassle.

 
I'm not a reviewer just another artist. But on the surface of it your numbers that you stated exceed the licensing. You stated that you are allowed 1,000 verses and you have over 2,000 cards. It is likely that you used less than 1,000 verses within the 2,000 cards. Remember that legally copyright infringement also includes intent.
 
In my opinion you don't have fix any cards that are already approved - just use your own phrasing or use a public domain book for those cards that didn't obtain approval.  
 
Alternatively, you may respond to the email and specify how you meet the licensing terms.
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Stanley_134646
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Re: Cards using Scripture verses
Reply #9 - Mar 30th, 2012, 9:05am
 
Quote from SunAtNight_145914 on Mar 30th, 2012, 9:01am:
Quote from Stanley_134646 on Mar 30th, 2012, 8:49am:
Since I DID follow the permissions guideline provided by the publisher, should I just resubmit and hope that a DIFFERENT reviewer gets it this time? Seriously, I need this resolved. I don't want to have to redesign more than 2000 cards to meet these "new" guidelines.

Will close store rather than go to that hassle.


I'm not a reviewer just another artist. But on the surface of it your numbers that you stated exceed the licensing. You stated that you are allowed 1,000 verses and you have over 2,000 cards. It is likely that you used less than 1,000 verses within the 2,000 cards. Remember that legally copyright infringement also includes intent.

In my opinion you don't have fix any cards that are already approved - just use your own phrasing or use a public domain book for those cards that didn't obtain approval.

Alternatively, you may respond to the email and specify how you meet the licensing terms.

 
Thanks! I do not mean that I have sold 2,000 cards using the SAME verse. My understanding is that using different verses would be permissible, since they are all on different cards. The intent of the publisher is that I not use 1,001 verses on the SAME published work, without permission.
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Doreen_137017
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Re: Cards using Scripture verses
Reply #10 - Mar 30th, 2012, 9:05am
 
Quote from Stanley_134646 on Mar 30th, 2012, 8:57am:
Quote from SunAtNight_145914 on Mar 30th, 2012, 8:51am:
Quote from Tracey_180471 on Mar 30th, 2012, 8:18am:
Wow, some of these reviewers need to get a grip, seriously.  Pretty sure the gospels are free to quote! A lot of us do it from memory, not from a specific Bible. Wink  I also use scriptures in a lot of my cards and have never had an issue here or anywhere else.   Good luck!


You may use your own wording - but you should realize that there are many people who have memorized the exact phrasing. There is a chance that the memorization is from a book that is under copyright. There are not many organizations that use the public domain books.



Guys, I really do appreciate your replies. But you each seem to be ignoring my original question  Smiley You're trying to give me lessons on copyrighted Scripture. I am already aware of each of these. My question has to do with following the permission guidelines provided BY THE PUBLISHER. Shouldn't that be enough for GCU?

And if it is not, if following the publisher's OWN guidelines for usage are not good enough for GCU, then what about the hundreds of cards I've already uploaded (AND SOLD)?

 
Sounds like you should provide a link to those permissions when re-submitting the cards in the Review Notes. The only way they will know what permissions you've been granted are if you provide them the link.  Try it and see.  If your cards in question all have verses from this same publisher of whom offers permission, then you can list the PID's which were declined, include the permission link and send an email to the review team asking for another look.
 
That's all I can think of to help you move forward with this issue.
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Stanley_134646
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Re: Cards using Scripture verses
Reply #11 - Mar 30th, 2012, 9:15am
 
Thanks, Doreen! Had already thought of that, but since resubmitting a card does not allow us to add notes to the reviewer, it appears the only way to do that is to delete the card, then start over.  
 
Is this correct? Have never had a card returned for this reason, so this is new to me.
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Doreen_137017
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Re: Cards using Scripture verses
Reply #12 - Mar 30th, 2012, 9:29am
 
Quote from Stanley_134646 on Mar 30th, 2012, 9:15am:
Thanks, Doreen! Had already thought of that, but since resubmitting a card does not allow us to add notes to the reviewer, it appears the only way to do that is to delete the card, then start over.

Is this correct? Have never had a card returned for this reason, so this is new to me.

 
That would be true - the Reviewer Notes are only available on a new card.  Try the email route.  Be specific with PIDs and the link to your permission source and use Reviewer Notes on any new cards with quotes of any kind.
 
Good luck!
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Stanley_134646
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Re: Cards using Scripture verses
Reply #13 - Mar 30th, 2012, 9:39am
 
Quote from Doreen_137017 on Mar 30th, 2012, 9:29am:
Quote from Stanley_134646 on Mar 30th, 2012, 9:15am:
Thanks, Doreen! Had already thought of that, but since resubmitting a card does not allow us to add notes to the reviewer, it appears the only way to do that is to delete the card, then start over.

Is this correct? Have never had a card returned for this reason, so this is new to me.


That would be true - the Reviewer Notes are only available on a new card.  Try the email route.  Be specific with PIDs and the link to your permission source and use Reviewer Notes on any new cards with quotes of any kind.

Good luck!

 
Thanks! Will try the email route. I really appreciate your help.
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Jenny_140983
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Re: Cards using Scripture verses
Reply #14 - Mar 30th, 2012, 12:57pm
 
I understand what you're saying but I'm pretty sure that use guideline doesn't apply to commercial usage on cards, unless you were told differently. I found their guidelines to be ambiguous so I specifically asked Zondervan the copyright holder of the NIV. I posted my correspondence on one of the other threads about this.
 
If you get permission to use NIV without paying something or going through the process they asked me to let me know because I'd love to use it but gave up on account of laziness Smiley
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