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template and actual printed cards (Read 25373 times)
Sue_132963
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template and actual printed cards
Feb 14th, 2008, 8:10am
 
Hi gang,
I wrote a couple of days ago about my 20 Valentines I had ordered and how VERY pleased I was with the quality.
But there's one thing I forgot to mention.  It might be valuable info for newcomers..
I downloaded and use the GCU template.  I found that it fits exactly my 5x7 sizing in my photoshop software.  However, when I received my cards I found that the 1/4 they (GCU) talk about--put no valuable information in this space--they really mean it!  I have found that I really must pretend that the last 1/4 inch does not exist.  Some of my borders were simply too close to the edge for my taste.  So now I am going back through every single image and resizing.  I want my cards to be the very best they can be as I'm sure you all do.  While these cards are certainly acceptable as they stand, I know they are not exactly as I imagined them, so now I have to alter each accordingly.    
Probably the best scenario is where your card has no border--the image runs right out over the edge and has no valuable info on the last 1/2 inch of image.  That certainly is a no fail situation.  Fortunately some of my cards did fall into this catagory.
Soo, I will not be adding any NEW cards to my shop in the near future.  I will be resizing and exchanging images (on my 200+ cards in my store so far.  Then I will order more cards and see how I like the changes...)I am so glad I ordered some cards and found this out before I had two thousand cards in my store!
SO newbies, watch those borders!  And order some of your cards and see how they look, before you continue blindly supplying your store.
Good luck!
SueB
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Cara_131386
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Re: template and actual printed cards
Reply #1 - Feb 14th, 2008, 8:32am
 
I hear ya and I downloaded the template finally LOL, and I don't have a clue, as to how to use the darn thing!  LOL  It opens up in my photoshop elements but then what do I do, I am lost LOL!  Any help would be appreciated! Cool
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Norval_132688
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Re: template and actual printed cards
Reply #2 - Feb 14th, 2008, 9:55am
 
Hi,Sue
This is something GCU really needs to address.  I'm completely new to print on
demand,  but they really need to go to the print industry standard........
5x7 image area with 1/4 inch bleed, so the thumbnail we [and the customer] see
on site which includes the bleed, then when it's received looks like a bad trim.
Lets hear back from you people from print.
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Harry_132595
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Re: template and actual printed cards
Reply #3 - Feb 14th, 2008, 10:02am
 
I've looked at my GCU cards and the template very closely to figure out what happens.  To my way of thinking the template doesn't really reflect what GCU does with the image and I think they did the template that way to keep things as simple as possible.  For printing purposes the 5x7 image is actually enlarged and appears to be printed on a slightly larger card stock.  It looks to me like they then trim the card to exactly 5x7 to deal with the "full bleed" issue of printing right to the edge of the stock.  This is the best way to do it and they get a great product with the process.  If you open your card flat and look at how much of the image is printed past the fold you'll see just how much the image has been enlarged and then trimmed.  That dimension past the fold is very consistent from card to card.  It runs about 1/8th of an inch within 1/32nd of an inch on all my cards.  If you are a lunatic like me you can figure out just how large the printed image is (before trimming) by measuring from the center of the card to the edge of the print past the fold. Then if you get even crazier you can figure out where the trim line is.  You'll find the 1/4" is a little fat but very safe.  I went thru this exercise because I try to use the images elsewhere where they print much closer to the 5x7 size and trim much less and I don't want the borders getting too big.  But I think GCU's process gives a much better looking card.  Now if we can only convince them to let us put images on all for faces of the card like Zazzle ... GCU will have an amazing product!  I like doing all faces of the cards on Zazzle but I am much happier with the GCU finished card itself.  It's slightly heavier stock a little glossier ... AND ... it folds neatly, cleanly, and evenly.  Zazzle cards the front overlaps the back quite a bit and sometimes the finish edges aren't even parallel ... and it varies from card to card.  A little disappointing.  
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Cara_131386
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Re: template and actual printed cards
Reply #4 - Feb 14th, 2008, 10:13am
 
Harry, your a genius with math!  Math has never been my strong point...hehehe  In fact I am going to read your post over a few times to get it, let's hope I get it Smiley Cool
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Norval_132688
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Re: template and actual printed cards
Reply #5 - Feb 14th, 2008, 10:55am
 
Thanks Harry, I'm printing off your reply for referance.  Why I'm concerned is
my look is very bordered, and I want the customer to receive what they see
on the Thumbnail.  On site, if you follow the template you see this wide border,
looks great, when you receive the card, because of what you said in your reply,  
now you have a much narrower  border.  If one designs for a wide border the
the Thumbnail looks completely out of proportion???
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Harry_132595
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Re: template and actual printed cards
Reply #6 - Feb 14th, 2008, 11:25am
 
Grin
 
Thank-you Cara ...
 
But I'm not so sure it's genius as much as an annoying nack for becoming a little absurdly obsessed with tiny things no one really notices or cares about!
 
I'd offer my template up to folks but thats just insulting to the folks at GCU here who I think do a great job.  Their template really does work fine and keeps things simple.  But I do think it helps to understand what is happening with the image in the process.  For instance if you do a card and really want a 1/4" border, you do need to make it a little bigger than 1/4" on your 5x7 image. And to get them to appear the same on all sides of the card is going to be a bit of challenge.  One site actually cautions against using borders at all.  My approach???  Make them uneven by design!   Grin
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Cara_131386
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Re: template and actual printed cards
Reply #7 - Feb 14th, 2008, 11:31am
 
I would like the printed card to look identical to the thumbnail, because that is what the customer will be EXPECTING.  We should be giving the customer EXACTLY what they want, or informing them that there may be a white border surrounding the card, in all fairness and in my humble opinion!
 
My question still stands, how do you use GCU's template.  Templates confuse the **** out of me LOL...what do I do with the template once I get it into Photoshop? Do I copy my image onto  the top of the GCU template..and then check the size?  geez I'm lost Sad
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Harry_132595
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Re: template and actual printed cards
Reply #8 - Feb 14th, 2008, 11:37am
 
Well Norval I looked at your designs, I like them very much by the way, and I think you might have a bit of a challenge ahead of you to get your borders the way you want them.  And I don't think there is going to be much you can do about the difference between the thumb and the finished card.  I don't think the Thumbs take the trim into account.  For your designs I really would recommend you go through the exercise I did with creating the 5x7, enlargeing it and "trimming" it back to 5x7.  Things get a little touchy.  Remember when the image is enlarged it holds "proportion" ... then you are trimming it to "dimension".  There is a subtle difference that your card designs are really going to bring out.  If you go through the exercise you will see what I mean.  Good Luck to you.  If I can help I'll be glad to try.  Smiley
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Harry_132595
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Re: template and actual printed cards
Reply #9 - Feb 14th, 2008, 11:49am
 
Hiya Cara ... well I tried to make that argument about making sure the customers see what they are getting with a management team of another site.  And I think the issue was far worse than the difference between the thumb and the trimmed finished card here.  Sometimes it really is just a little difficult to get these sites doing everything as perfectly as we'd like them form a programming stand point.  Some places do it better than others.  I'm not going to argue that issue on here I learned my lesson.  I became very unpopular over there.  These sites simply have their limits and the thing we have to do as intelligent designers is know how to recognize them and work within or around them to make OUR products the best they can be.  Somtimes these limts can actually become opportunities.  Sometimes they become nice accidents that make our designs even more interesting.  One of my fav designs of mine actually made the limits of the print area on a T-shirt a feature of the design and ended up in me creating a number of my favorite designs.  .... No one is buying them but I still love them LOL
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Harry_132595
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Re: template and actual printed cards
Reply #10 - Feb 14th, 2008, 11:53am
 
Oh and I'm not a photoshopper but the basic idea of a template is to make sure your image fits within the "proportions" of the template.  If it doesn't it will be cropped or resized to fit.  I don't use templates much myself ... I focus on print area for the product.
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Cara_131386
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Reply #11 - Feb 14th, 2008, 12:10pm
 
Well, I was using 2 different sizes for my cards here and one was 2450 x 1750 and the other was 2100 x 1500 (which is the size GCU recommended) I am wondering now if the cards that I made at 2450 x 1750 are probly too large.  But I haven't recieved any emails from GCU asking me to take them back down to 2100 x 1500 but I have taken them down to 2100 x 1500, recently.  
 
I am confused, but then again that is nothing new for me Smiley  
 
I also realize what you said Harry, about working within the guidelines and a agree 100% with you on that.  I know that what GCU can do they will do, and what might be a logistical nightmare might just have to wait.  I trust that they usually always grant a request if they can do it without any major problems.  I am very happy here!
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Harry_132595
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Re: template and actual printed cards
Reply #12 - Feb 14th, 2008, 12:30pm
 
Well I can't say that I am unhappy here ... be nice to sell some cards.  I buy a lot of them though  Grin  I really like the quality.  I love being able to send them directly to people.  That is such a great feature.
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Norval_132688
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Re: template and actual printed cards
Reply #13 - Feb 14th, 2008, 1:02pm
 
Thanks Harry for your complement and your expertise.  But.....HELP........
HAVE I PRESSED A WRONG BUTTON AGAIN.........I'm getting many duplicate
e-mails from the forum!
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Cara_131386
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Re: template and actual printed cards
Reply #14 - Feb 14th, 2008, 1:08pm
 
Must be lots of people gabbing today?   Roll Eyes
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Ernestine_131365
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Re: template and actual printed cards
Reply #15 - Feb 14th, 2008, 2:19pm
 
Harry-- I actually went through the same calculations you did to get a template that worked!  But, I agree, that it may be a bit complicated for those without a print background.  I'm glad this topic has been brought up again.  Some months ago Shaun asked me to send the template I was working with and I know that a new and improved template IS something in the works and is part of the whole situation with being able to have customized printing on the back.  Yet is not something GCU can just implement quickly like "new categories" for example.  They have to work with their printing partner, "cardstore," I believe.
 
Shaun--  any new developments on this front?  In the meantime, I can just suggest that if you have an actual "border" leave a MINIMUM of a quarter inch around (more the better) and shifting the image a few pixels to the right and to the top within the 5x7 inch may give you better centering.  With cards that "bleed." just make sure again that the MINIMUM 1/4" can be trimmed and not affect the card image.  (The "right/top" shift can't hurt here either.)
 
Waiting to hear about new template developments!
 
-Ernestine
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Sandra_133229
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Reply #16 - Feb 14th, 2008, 2:33pm
 
Thanks for the tip!  I like your cards!
 
Sandra
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Cara_131386
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Reply #17 - Feb 14th, 2008, 3:09pm
 
I am going to copy and paste yours and Harry's post to have handy for me for guidance.  I probably better order some of my own cards too, so I can really see for myself.  Thanks so much Ernestine!
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Harry_132595
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Re: template and actual printed cards
Reply #18 - Feb 14th, 2008, 3:52pm
 
Hi Ernestine,
 
So I am not alone in my crazyness.  I'm going to actually try an experiment with my latest card.  I am going to try posting an image that is bigger than the 5x7.  If it works then I can work in real dimensions on the card design.  Well my images have always been bigger than 5x7 pixel wise but before I use to take my template of what I suspect the print size images is and scale it down to 5x7 to work with it.  Heck I ain't got nuthin to loose and if it does work I'll try to do one with and actual sized border around it just to see how close I can get to being the right size and consistent.
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Gina_133039
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Re: template and actual printed cards
Reply #19 - Feb 14th, 2008, 6:08pm
 
Smiley Norval, I don't know if this will be helpful, but, when I first joined GCU and signed up for the forums, I, too, thought I was getting dupes.  However, after a few, I realized that each new post generates an email from the forum you are subscribed to and you have to scroll to the bottom to see the new post.  Hope this helps.  Oh..and I checked at your shop... very nice!  I especially liked the military valentine cards.  
 
gina
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Re: template and actual printed cards
Reply #20 - Feb 15th, 2008, 9:22am
 
I've been thinking of trying an image that is *smaller* than 5x7, since the images are enlarged when printed. Let us know what happens with your experiment.
 
Quote from Harry_132595 on Feb 14th, 2008, 3:52pm:
Hi Ernestine,

So I am not alone in my crazyness.  I'm going to actually try an experiment with my latest card.  I am going to try posting an image that is bigger than the 5x7.  If it works then I can work in real dimensions on the card design.  Well my images have always been bigger than 5x7 pixel wise but before I use to take my template of what I suspect the print size images is and scale it down to 5x7 to work with it.  Heck I ain't got nuthin to loose and if it does work I'll try to do one with and actual sized border around it just to see how close I can get to being the right size and consistent.

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Shaun_131054
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Re: template and actual printed cards
Reply #21 - Feb 15th, 2008, 11:58am
 
Hello Everyone,
 
Lots of good questions here.  I'll try to address all of them.  
 
We've been doing our own testing over the last couple months, and I can say that a new template for full bleed images is in the works, although I'm not too sure when it will be completed and available.  
 
Harry is on the right track.  Through testing and research we found that the fold edge and trim edges are typically about .1" and that images are slightly enlarged to 5.2x7.2" before they are printed, then cut to make a 5x7" image.  For full bleed images you can try sizing your images to 1560x2160 pixels at 300 dpi, leaving .1" bleed on all 4 corners.  Your card will be cut differently each time it's printed, but the .1" bleed should allow for this variance.  
 
For the moment, we do still recommend keeping text and all important detail .25" inches from the edges of the card, just to be safe.    
 
Images with borders have always been a little tricky.  If your border is visible within the red dotted-line on our card templates then it will always appear on the card, however since the card may not always be perfectly centered, theres a chance that thinner borders may look uneven on print.  We recommend that you use thicker borders so that the inconstancy is hardly noticeable to the eye if the image is not perfectly centered.  A .5" border should work well.  
 
With regard to the thumbnails that are displayed on the site, we currently don't have the ability to trim your images so that they always resemble the finished product.  That said, if you upload full bleed images at 5.2x7.2 and keep all important detail .25 inches away from the corners, the difference between the thumbnail and the printed image should only be the trimming of the .1" bleed, which the customer will probably not notice.  If the customer is not satisfied with the card, we will work with them to come up with a resolution.
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Shaun_131054
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Re: template and actual printed cards
Reply #22 - Feb 15th, 2008, 12:04pm
 
Quote from Harry_132595 on Feb 14th, 2008, 3:52pm:
Hi Ernestine,

So I am not alone in my crazyness. I'm going to actually try an experiment with my latest card. I am going to try posting an image that is bigger than the 5x7. If it works then I can work in real dimensions on the card design. Well my images have always been bigger than 5x7 pixel wise but before I use to take my template of what I suspect the print size images is and scale it down to 5x7 to work with it. Heck I ain't got nuthin to loose and if it does work I'll try to do one with and actual sized border around it just to see how close I can get to being the right size and consistent.

 
Hi Harry,
Please let us know what you find.  We can credit your account with a few free card credits for these tests.
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Shaun_131054
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Re: template and actual printed cards
Reply #23 - Feb 15th, 2008, 12:13pm
 
Quote from Cara_131386 on Feb 14th, 2008, 11:31am:
I would like the printed card to look identical to the thumbnail, because that is what the customer will be EXPECTING. We should be giving the customer EXACTLY what they want, or informing them that there may be a white border surrounding the card, in all fairness and in my humble opinion!

My question still stands, how do you use GCU's template. Templates confuse the **** out of me LOL...what do I do with the template once I get it into Photoshop? Do I copy my image onto the top of the GCU template..and then check the size? geez I'm lost Sad

 
Hi Cara,
The template was designed to be the starting point when you create your images, so that the images you upload meet recommended dimensions and resolution.  You can hide the Template Guide layer and use the red border to ensure text and other important detail will be included in the printed image.  Just be sure to hide the red border before exporting your image to jpg  Wink
 
You can also paste your 1500x2100 or 2100x1500 pixel (at 300 dpi or ppi) images on to the template to verify that all text and other important detail will be included in the printed image.
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Cara_131386
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Re: template and actual printed cards
Reply #24 - Feb 15th, 2008, 12:21pm
 
Thank you Shaun, I shall play with it and check it out Smiley  As I posted in a different thread, my friend recieved her cards and she is ecstatic about the quality all the way around, so I am very happy! Smiley
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Harry_132595
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Re: template and actual printed cards
Reply #25 - Feb 16th, 2008, 12:54pm
 
Hi Shaun,
 
I haven't tried printing them yet because I am waiting for one to be approved.
 
Based on measuring the 8 or so cards I still have in my hands, I came up with a template that is 5.325" x 7.455" that I output at 300 dpi from Corel draw.  To find your recommend 1/4" border (which of course is more when blown up) I drew a 5x7, marked the 1/4", then enlarged it to a width of 5.325 (that gave me the 7.455 height maintaining the width/height ratio).  I left the 5x7 centered as the referenced trim line.
 
You shouldn't make your new template 5.2 x 7.2 it's not the right proportion.  5x7 is 1/1.4 (width/height).  5.2x7.2 is 1/1.38 ... that .02 in "proportion" is huge.  I assume when you enlarge you hold the aspect ratio and don't distort the image.  
 
And as far as centering ... even on multiples of the same card, mine have been closer than I can measure.  Very consistent ... horizontal or vertical.
 
I'm confused by you mentioning a 1 inch bleed.
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Harry_132595
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Re: template and actual printed cards
Reply #26 - Feb 16th, 2008, 1:33pm
 
Hello again Shaun,
 
I uploaded a very simple test card for my template.  It is Product ID 152445.  Colored rectangles with the sizes noted.
 
Maybe you folks can print a few out and see what you think and slip a few in the mail to me so I can see how they worked.
 
Thank-you
Harry
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Re: template and actual printed cards
Reply #27 - Feb 18th, 2008, 10:45am
 
Quote from Harry_132595 on Feb 14th, 2008, 11:53am:
Oh and I'm not a photoshopper but the basic idea of a template is to make sure your image fits within the "proportions" of the template.  If it doesn't it will be cropped or resized to fit.  I don't use templates much myself ... I focus on print area for the product.

 
Hi, I'm new, my first post.  Question related to the topic of borders:  Your cards have different colored borders and backgrounds.  I do not see where GCU gives us a choice of borders or backgrounds so I am assuming that you create your cards with your own choice of border color, etc.  Correct? -- Dee
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Harry_132595
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Re: template and actual printed cards
Reply #28 - Feb 18th, 2008, 12:40pm
 
Hello again Shaun,
 
I got curious so I went ahead and ordered 2 copies of my template test card (Product Id:152445) that I mentioned and am having them mailed to me.  If you would like to credit me for those cards that would be very nice.
 
Hello Deanne,
 
Since you quoted me I'll go ahead and answer you.  Here on GCU you design the entire face of the card ... i.e. fill the whole 5x7 print area.  BUT ... borders get a little tricky and that is what this whole thread is about.  
 
I'll be sure to let everyone know how my template test cards come out.
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Sue_132963
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Re: template and actual printed cards
Reply #29 - Feb 18th, 2008, 8:37pm
 
Hi folks,
It's now 5 days later and I am back in the land of the living....I went completely through my store and checked on any and all borders that I thought might have a problem and re-worked them all.  Man!--what a job...At times I felt like I would never see the light of day again.  But here I am and with all my cards corrected.  I found that as I reworked my borders, I had new ideas, often Better ideas, as to the colors of borders or the useage of a certain card front, or new verse ideas.  This proved to be a VERY worthwhile endeavor, as I am much more pleased with my cards than I was prior to this 're-evaluating'.  Now I know that I will periodically go back through each card in my store and re-think it!
Now, a couple of things I found after re-working over 200 cards, is that we could definately benefit from an easier way to move through our photos.  
Administrators--Do you think we could just point-and-click to the page we want?
IE:  1-50  (pg 1)   51-100 (pg 2)  101-150 (pg 3)
Now if I could point to pg 3 and click, it would be ever so much faster than working my way through page one, page two and finally page three--to say nothing of page twenty!
I also found the process cumbersome when changing the photo on a card, to get back to the same page I was on, but keep the new imported images available.  Pages do not seem to automatically refresh when you return to them--so the newly added photo does not show up.
Oh gosh, I'm tired and probably not making myself real clear.   Tongue
But any help in this areas would be most appreciated.
 
One other thing:  I have asked several times, but never received an answer....
Will the template be updated with current stats and will be having the Support the Troops campaign again this spring?  I would dearly love an updated template to use for a local press release.  PLEASE, let me know..I know there are others here also interested in this.
Thanks!
Sue
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Sue_132963
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Re: template and actual printed cards
Reply #30 - Feb 18th, 2008, 8:53pm
 
Shaun,
First let me say, I do not have a Printing background, so kindly excuse me if my questions are ignorant.
But your post has me thoroughly confused.  If we upload an image at 5.2 x 7.2 and then the printer ENLARGES it--aren't we going to loose MORE of our picture?
It seems to me that we should rather be uploading something a bit SMALLER than the 5x7 in order to keep all our information when they blow it up (enlarge it).  Am I completely out to lunch on this???
Thanks so much for your patience..
SueB
 
Quote from Shaun_131054 on Feb 15th, 2008, 11:58am:
Hello Everyone,

Lots of good questions here.  I'll try to address all of them.  

We've been doing our own testing over the last couple months, and I can say that a new template for full bleed images is in the works, although I'm not too sure when it will be completed and available.  

Harry is on the right track.  Through testing and research we found that the fold edge and trim edges are typically about .1" and that images are slightly enlarged to 5.2x7.2" before they are printed, then cut to make a 5x7" image.  For full bleed images you can try sizing your images to 1560x2160 pixels at 300 dpi, leaving .1" bleed on all 4 corners.  Your card will be cut differently each time it's printed, but the .1" bleed should allow for this variance.  

For the moment, we do still recommend keeping text and all important detail .25" inches from the edges of the card, just to be safe.  

Images with borders have always been a little tricky.  If your border is visible within the red dotted-line on our card templates then it will always appear on the card, however since the card may not always be perfectly centered, theres a chance that thinner borders may look uneven on print.  We recommend that you use thicker borders so that the inconstancy is hardly noticeable to the eye if the image is not perfectly centered.  A .5" border should work well.  

With regard to the thumbnails that are displayed on the site, we currently don't have the ability to trim your images so that they always resemble the finished product.  That said, if you upload full bleed images at 5.2x7.2 and keep all important detail .25 inches away from the corners, the difference between the thumbnail and the printed image should only be the trimming of the .1" bleed, which the customer will probably not notice.  If the customer is not satisfied with the card, we will work with them to come up with a resolution.  

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Re: template and actual printed cards
Reply #31 - Feb 19th, 2008, 6:12am
 
Quote from Harry_132595 on Feb 16th, 2008, 12:54pm:
Hi Shaun,

I haven't tried printing them yet because I am waiting for one to be approved.

Based on measuring the 8 or so cards I still have in my hands, I came up with a template that is 5.325" x 7.455" that I output at 300 dpi from Corel draw. To find your recommend 1/4" border (which of course is more when blown up) I drew a 5x7, marked the 1/4", then enlarged it to a width of 5.325 (that gave me the 7.455 height maintaining the width/height ratio). I left the 5x7 centered as the referenced trim line.

You shouldn't make your new template 5.2 x 7.2 it's not the right proportion. 5x7 is 1/1.4 (width/height). 5.2x7.2 is 1/1.38 ... that .02 in "proportion" is huge. I assume when you enlarge you hold the aspect ratio and don't distort the image.

And as far as centering ... even on multiples of the same card, mine have been closer than I can measure. Very consistent ... horizontal or vertical.

I'm confused by you mentioning a 1 inch bleed.

 
 
the cards i have submited for the past 2 months approx. have been based on 5.2 x7.2... that gave me 60 pixels around the edges, i thought, to be the zone i needed to stay out of.  i ordered test cards after changing to this formula and they seemed okay.
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Re: template and actual printed cards
Reply #32 - Feb 19th, 2008, 5:20pm
 
Quote from Harry_132595 on Feb 16th, 2008, 12:54pm:
Hi Shaun,

I haven't tried printing them yet because I am waiting for one to be approved.

Based on measuring the 8 or so cards I still have in my hands, I came up with a template that is 5.325" x 7.455" that I output at 300 dpi from Corel draw. To find your recommend 1/4" border (which of course is more when blown up) I drew a 5x7, marked the 1/4", then enlarged it to a width of 5.325 (that gave me the 7.455 height maintaining the width/height ratio). I left the 5x7 centered as the referenced trim line.

You shouldn't make your new template 5.2 x 7.2 it's not the right proportion. 5x7 is 1/1.4 (width/height). 5.2x7.2 is 1/1.38 ... that .02 in "proportion" is huge. I assume when you enlarge you hold the aspect ratio and don't distort the image.

And as far as centering ... even on multiples of the same card, mine have been closer than I can measure. Very consistent ... horizontal or vertical.

I'm confused by you mentioning a 1 inch bleed.

 
Hi Harry,
 
Our printing partner noted that full bleed cards are printed at 5.2x7.2" inches then trimmed to 5x7".  At 300dpi this is 1560x2160 pixels.   You are correct, as the proportion does not match.  A 1500x2100pixel image would scale to 1543x2160. I'm not sure if the width is stretched by 17 pixels or if the image is slightly cropped before printing.  I'll try to find out.  
 
Regarding the .1" (or 1/10") bleed, if you upload an image that is 5.2x7.2 inches, you can expect about .1" to be trimmed from each of the 3 corners and about .1"  to appear over the fold on the back of the card.
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Re: template and actual printed cards
Reply #33 - Feb 19th, 2008, 5:24pm
 
Quote from Harry_132595 on Feb 18th, 2008, 12:40pm:
Hello again Shaun,

I got curious so I went ahead and ordered 2 copies of my template test card (Product Id:152445) that I mentioned and am having them mailed to me. If you would like to credit me for those cards that would be very nice.

 
I've issued 4 card credits to your account.  2 for this test and 2 for any additional tests.
 
Please let me know how the cards look when they arrive.
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Re: template and actual printed cards
Reply #34 - Feb 19th, 2008, 6:34pm
 
Quote:
Hi Harry,

Our printing partner noted that full bleed cards are printed at 5.2x7.2" inches then trimmed to 5x7".  At 300dpi this is 1560x2160 pixels.   You are correct, as the proportion does not match.  A 1500x2100pixel image would scale to 1543x2160. I'm not sure if the width is stretched by 17 pixels or if the image is slightly cropped before printing.  I'll try to find out.  

Regarding the .1" (or 1/10") bleed, if you upload an image that is 5.2x7.2 inches, you can expect about .1" to be trimmed from each of the 3 corners and about .1"  to appear over the fold on the back of the card.  

 
Hi Shaun  
 
Thanks for the credit on the cards.  I guess I'll see what happens when I get my test cards.
 
I'm guessing when folks were uploading 5x7 images or 1500x2100 they were getting enlarged to "fill" the 5.2 and some of the image at the top and the bottom was just getting lost.  That would account for the uneven borders on the printed cards.  If the printer is really working with a 5.2x7.2 and the image isn't enlarged then borders should work fine.
 
Problem is some sites do work with the 5x7 image ... so folks are going to have to adjust their cards a little for other sites.  If you toss a 5.2x7.2 into the Zazzle design tool for instance, you'll get white on the sides if you print to fit and loose some of the image if you print to fill.  I guess one trick would be to have a little extra background to toss onto the 5x7 design.
 
Once I get my tests maybe I'll do the same image as a 5.2x7.2 and see if it turns out any different.      
 
 
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Re: template and actual printed cards
Reply #35 - Feb 20th, 2008, 1:52pm
 
Quote from Tom_133317 on Feb 20th, 2008, 6:11am:
I've been using the template and uploading 1500px2100p images as recommended.  I have a few images that hug the RED-LINE on the template but have not read anywhere here of how far the true card edge is in reference to the RED_LINE of the template.  Hopefully Harry's test will determine a number within 1/10th of an inch.

My images in Large Preview indicate plenty of bleed (due to use of the template), but I have seen numerous other people's card previews that seem to show essentially no bleed!  I'm curious if these still turn out fine, and I'm also curious if the approval process includes a cross-check by GCU relative to the template.

I get numerous marketing material done by Vistaprint online (such as business cards) and they have a cool preview tool after uploading that shows you exactly how your image will look, including where the cut line is.  This preview usually leads me to add more bleed to "back-away" from the indicated cut-line. They show the cut-line rather "fat" to take into account machine tolerance, which is smart. I suggest GCU try out the Vistaprint process (it's free) to see how others are doing it.  

 
You know, I've been working with templates from various print-on-demand sites and all usually require that you keep the important items you want to show up on your item to be within the dotted line area so they don't get cut off.  Some places that little .25 inch doesn't even show up on the item so you could smudge and stretch the edges because you knew they would not show up on the item.  When I started with GCU I thought it was the same way.  However, I quickly learned that I could not smudge my edges out to create the extra space I needed to keep the important parts of my images inside that red dotted line because the smudging would show up on the printed card and look REALLY BAD!  So I got in contact with Nasser at GCU (the head guy) and he explained it very simply to me.  Just leave my images alone, don't try to stretch the image, just make sure the text falls inside the red dotted line and anything else I would deem important to show up.  The shift is so minute that most people receiving the card would not notice.  I of course don't deal with borders on my cards because I am dealing with my Nature photos or my late mothers watercolor prints.  Ever since that conversation with Nasser, I have not had any problems.
 
I just take my image, make what changes I want to it, add my signature and save my file in photoshop elements 6.0 (PE) (now up from 2.0).  All that is dealing with my images that have been shot at 6megapixel jpg format at 72ppi. I save that completed process as a .psd file. Then I bring into PE my GCU template.  Then I drag my completed .psd file onto the GCU template.  I drag the red dotted line layer so it is the top layer so I can see if all the important parts are within the red dotted line.  Since my image is shot at 6 mp it is much bigger (2816x2120) than the 1500x2100 GCU template, I can then shrink my completed image by dragging the corners in to resize it to the template.  More times than not everything fits within the red dotted line.  I may have to shift my signature a little to fit inside, but everything usually fits fine.  I have learned also, that when I am taking a photo, I also try to imagine this .25 border so I either backoff slightly when taking my photo.  This allows me, when I am creating the card for everything to fit within the red-dotted line.  It's kind of an entire process to make it work for the cards.
 
But, I just have not had the difficulty that seems to be being discussed.  I guess if one was creating artwork with a border, I could see how that could be difficult.  Borders were always difficult when I started out creating my own cards and printing my images inside of black doublelined border around the image.  Because this accentuated the shift of my printer if I didn't get the cardstock in their securely.  I guess that is why stopped dealing with borders and went to full bleed.  Even CP can't get it right on their cards so I just do everything in full bleed, unless a shift actually made the card look more artsy depending on what I did with it in Photoshop Elements.
 
I'm starting to ramble, but I hope I have helped anyone in some way on how I deal with this template issue.  Wink
 
Take Care!
 
Shari
www.flowerswithfeelingscentral.com  
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Re: template and actual printed cards
Reply #36 - Feb 21st, 2008, 8:06am
 
Hi Everyone,
I am very new to this and I should have looked here first. Not only did I not understand the size issue, I didn’t realize I have to put the text on the card, too.
Now I have only a few cards uploaded so I don’t have a lot of cards to remake.  
 
Does anyone have any hints for me about the text quality. I don’t know much about that either. Is the Photoshop text good enough? I think this is going to be fun, but a challenge for me.
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Re: template and actual printed cards
Reply #37 - Feb 21st, 2008, 8:55am
 
Hi Julie,
 
I'm glad you joined! You don't have to put text on the front of your cards unless you want to. And if you decide to, you can definitely do it in Photoshop, which is what I do.  
 
Also, to make things easy, I just use a 5 x 7 image at 300 ppi and take into account that a bit of the image will go over the fold. I actually make good use of that bit of image that goes over the fold by add a copyright line and my URL in that area.
 
I look forward to seeing more of your cards!
 
Dustin
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Re: template and actual printed cards
Reply #38 - Feb 21st, 2008, 12:15pm
 
Quote from Dustin_133010 on Feb 21st, 2008, 8:55am:
Hi Julie,

I'm glad you joined! You don't have to put text on the front of your cards unless you want to. And if you decide to, you can definitely do it in Photoshop, which is what I do.

Also, to make things easy, I just use a 5 x 7 image at 300 ppi and take into account that a bit of the image will go over the fold. I actually make good use of that bit of image that goes over the fold by add a copyright line and my URL in that area.

I look forward to seeing more of your cards!

Dustin

 
Hi Dustin,
 
I just looked at your shop again when you said you make use of the area over the fold for your copyright line and URL.  How has that actually worked for you on the actual printed cards.  Have you received some of your cards at home to see if those items actually show up over the backside of the fold?  I noticed you also printed them upside down (on landscape cards) using my magnifying glass onto my computer screen.  Tricky!  Do those items show up and not get cut off?  Nice use of space!
 
Let me know!  Great Tip!  Wink
 
Shari
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Re: template and actual printed cards
Reply #39 - Feb 21st, 2008, 1:04pm
 
Dustin - I think that this use of the fold over area is brilliant! I wouldn't normally ask an artist to reveal a "secret", but this could help all of us, where our cards don't currently allow us to direct customers back to our shops for follow-up sales. Do you mind outlining exactly how you do this: placement, size of font, etc.  
 
Quote:

Also, to make things easy, I just use a 5 x 7 image at 300 ppi and take into account that a bit of the image will go over the fold. I actually make good use of that bit of image that goes over the fold by add a copyright line and my URL in that area.

Dustin

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Re: template and actual printed cards
Reply #40 - Feb 21st, 2008, 1:22pm
 
Yes, I have ordered a card to confirm that using the fold over area of the image works for putting a copyright and URL.  
 
I am using a 6 pt. bold sans serif font set in all caps, and pushing it right to the edge of the image on the side that folds. I put it upside down when the card is landscape, so that it reads properly on the back. I pick a color for the font that coordinates with the image but has enough contrast to be read clearly.  
 
Give it a try and order at least one card before you add it to all your cards!
 
Dustin
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Re: template and actual printed cards
Reply #41 - Feb 21st, 2008, 1:33pm
 
Thank you for sharing, Dustin! Much appreciated.
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Re: template and actual printed cards
Reply #42 - Feb 21st, 2008, 1:55pm
 
Quote from Dustin_133010 on Feb 21st, 2008, 1:22pm:
Yes, I have ordered a card to confirm that using the fold over area of the image works for putting a copyright and URL.

I am using a 6 pt. bold sans serif font set in all caps, and pushing it right to the edge of the image on the side that folds. I put it upside down when the card is landscape, so that it reads properly on the back. I pick a color for the font that coordinates with the image but has enough contrast to be read clearly.

Give it a try and order at least one card before you add it to all your cards!

Dustin

 
That is seriously cool, Dustin!  Thanks for the How-To.  Are you using the GCU landscape and portrait card templates and put the info in the area that is technically not within the red dotted line area but to the actual edge of the image using the 5x7 or 7x5 templates?
 
Thanks for sharing your secret with us!  Grin
 
Shari
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Re: template and actual printed cards
Reply #43 - Feb 21st, 2008, 2:16pm
 
I don't use templates. I just set up a Photoshop document at 5x7 or 7x5 inches and 300 ppi and go from there, adding images and text to the document.  
 
I do keep any text that goes on the front of the card at least .25 inches from the edge. But I push my copyright line all the way to the edge of the image on the side that folds, because that side is not being trimmed.  
 
Hope that helps!
 
Dustin
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Re: template and actual printed cards
Reply #44 - Feb 21st, 2008, 10:13pm
 
Quote from Dustin_133010 on Feb 21st, 2008, 2:16pm:
I don't use templates. I just set up a Photoshop document at 5x7 or 7x5 inches and 300 ppi and go from there, adding images and text to the document.

I do keep any text that goes on the front of the card at least .25 inches from the edge. But I push my copyright line all the way to the edge of the image on the side that folds, because that side is not being trimmed.

Hope that helps!

Dustin

 
That's Great Dustin!  Thanks for that explanation.  I can make that work!  I appreciate your help and I'm sure others will benefit from these explanations.
 
Take Care!  Grin
 
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Re: template and actual printed cards
Reply #45 - Feb 22nd, 2008, 6:41am
 
I didn't know this until recently, but the greeting card fold-line is not centered (not at the 5-inch point on a portrait card).  They purposely make the face-side 1/16th-inch or so wider so that the card is easier to open.  And this 1/16th-inch is also not exact, as the folding machines have some variation.  It could be zero, or it could be 1/8th-inch, or anywhere in between.
 
I'm curious to see how much of the front-side image ends up on the backside of the card given that the front should be wider.  It could be dangerous putting any info in this fold space as at times it might end up partially on the front once all the machine tolerances are taken into account.
 
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Re: template and actual printed cards
Reply #46 - Feb 22nd, 2008, 10:37am
 
Quote from Tom_133317 on Feb 22nd, 2008, 6:41am:
I didn't know this until recently, but the greeting card fold-line is not centered (not at the 5-inch point on a portrait card). They purposely make the face-side 1/16th-inch or so wider so that the card is easier to open. And this 1/16th-inch is also not exact, as the folding machines have some variation. It could be zero, or it could be 1/8th-inch, or anywhere in between.

I'm curious to see how much of the front-side image ends up on the backside of the card given that the front should be wider. It could be dangerous putting any info in this fold space as at times it might end up partially on the front once all the machine tolerances are taken into account.


 
Hi Tom,  
 
In our own tests, we've found that 1/10 inch usually ends up on the back of the card.  You're correct that this will vary slightly from print to print because of machine tolerance.
   
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Re: template and actual printed cards
Reply #47 - Feb 23rd, 2008, 1:54pm
 
Quote from Shaun_131054 on Feb 22nd, 2008, 10:37am:
Quote from Tom_133317 on Feb 22nd, 2008, 6:41am:
I didn't know this until recently, but the greeting card fold-line is not centered (not at the 5-inch point on a portrait card).  They purposely make the face-side 1/16th-inch or so wider so that the card is easier to open.  And this 1/16th-inch is also not exact, as the folding machines have some variation.  It could be zero, or it could be 1/8th-inch, or anywhere in between.

I'm curious to see how much of the front-side image ends up on the backside of the card given that the front should be wider.  It could be dangerous putting any info in this fold space as at times it might end up partially on the front once all the machine tolerances are taken into account.



Hi Tom,

In our own tests, we've found that 1/10 inch usually ends up on the back of the card.  You're correct that this will vary slightly from print to print because of machine tolerance.
 

 
 
Hello Tom & Shaun
 
I'm not sure that fold issue applies here.  Looking at finished cards it really looks to me like the cards are cut after they are folded.  This seems to result in a very even edge.  And compared to other cards the GCU cards are extremely consistent on the size and edge conditions.  Although the centering of the face image consistently does favor the fold.
 
I got my template card back and while it didn't work as I'd hoped it did confirm some things.  When I made my template my goal was to find some information to help make some consistent and even borders, I didn't know about the 5.2x7.2 size at the time and calcualted a somewhat larger image size.  That image was clearly printed to "fill" the 5.2x7.2 area and the same thing happens with a 5x7 image size.  The image will be enlarged and borders will consequently not come out as even on a finished card when trimmed.
 
I got 2 copies of the card and both were identical as far as centering goes.  I'm not kidding when I say identical either.  You can flip the cards against each top to bottom and they still match.  These images are centered to an increment that is barely visible, if visble at all to the naked eye.
 
So I created another test card to print.  It's a 5.2x7.2 image. I'm gonna print it both horizontally and vertically.  Again we'll see what happens.
 
Sorry folks I just get a little nutso about finding out stuff like this ... I'll get a real kick out of it if I can get a template that will make it possible to get an exact even border on all four sides.      
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Re: template and actual printed cards
Reply #48 - Feb 24th, 2008, 8:45am
 
I also received my first GCU card yesterday. The quality is fantastic.  Thank you GCU !
 
For this first card,  I uploaded a 1500px2100p image, as recommended, and my background color was tan.  On this card, the background color wrapped around the fold 3/32".  As I mentioned in an earlier post,  in order to make greeting cards open easier, the printer people fold the cards slightly off center, making the front slightly wider than the back. On the GCU card I received, this was also true, but the difference was pretty small. about 1/64-1/32".  I do believe this means cards are trimmed before they are folded.
 
Here is a base pic of the card-back with the front image wrapping around the fold as we have been discussing. (NOTE: NOT ALL GCU CARDS WILL MATCH THIS)
http://www.fearlessthinkers.com/GCU/GCU_back.jpg
 
Here is a close-up of the fold area:  (NOTE: NOT ALL GCU CARDS WILL MATCH THIS)
http://www.fearlessthinkers.com/GCU/GCU_fold.jpg
 
And here is an example of the character size that would fit in this area on this card. (NOTE:  I don't recommend this area be used at all.  Try it at your own risk.)  
http://www.fearlessthinkers.com/GCU/GCU_fold_area.jpg    
 
Hope this adds to the discussion.
 
TOM
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Re: template and actual printed cards
Reply #49 - Feb 24th, 2008, 8:59am
 
Hi Tom,
 
Rather than tell people not to use that area at all, I would tell people to give it a try and see how they like it. I am very pleased with how it looks on my printed cards.
 
I have ordered 13 of my cards, and on none of them was the area on the back too thin to keep the type on the back.
 
Once GCU has set it up so that we can have an actual credit line on the back of the card, I won't go to the trouble of setting it up in that overlap area, but for now I am glad to have a copyright line and my URL. I use 6 pt. all caps so that there are no ascenders or descenders on the type.
 
Dustin
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Re: template and actual printed cards
Reply #50 - Feb 24th, 2008, 9:49am
 
I have to say, Dustin, that it is a very clever idea, and I love it when people are creative this way.  I have, however, been buying up various Greeting Cards in stores, ones similar to mine in style,  and am a bit shocked at the variability in the fold point, as well as in how much of the bleed wraps around the fold.  Even at GCU, there are a number of factors that could shift some of this bleed-fold area to the card-front, and GCU has already told us via the template and other guidance, to stay out of this area.  Perhaps they will charge the artist for cards customers return with this issue.
 
This is what makes me cautious about using this area myself, but others can do what they want  
 
I'd love to see a photo of your fold area, and I will post it if you can't (email me).
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Re: template and actual printed cards
Reply #51 - Feb 24th, 2008, 10:50am
 
Tom, I would be glad to send you a photo, but have given away all my cards. I'll order another one and photograph it when it arrives.
 
Dustin
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Re: template and actual printed cards
Reply #52 - Feb 25th, 2008, 9:23am
 
Well Dustin - as soon as you said you would order another card, I got an email from GCU that said someone ordered one of your cards via my Widget.
 
It looks like you had clicked on my widget via a link in one of the other threads I was involved in over the weekend, prior to you ordering your card.  I suspect I shouldn't be given any credit for the sale, but it might be the way it has to be as it would be a little tricky, I think, for GCU to filter out artist purchase anomolies like this.  I'm sure they will catch this and respond.
 
It is nice, though. to see 50 cents sitting in my earnings page finally.  I think I'll stare at that page over lunch and enjoy it while it lasts, as I suspect it will get  reset back to zero shortly.  (hint hint)
 
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Re: template and actual printed cards
Reply #53 - Feb 25th, 2008, 9:37am
 
Well, I'm glad you are enjoying the sale. I did notice your website URL on your earlier post of the images of the card fold, so I went to check it out. That's great that you have published some books.  
 
I just went back to your website now to see your widget, and I don't remember clicking on it, but I guess I must have! Odd that you would get a commission when an artist that is already logged in to GCU buys one of their own cards, but I guess the automated program isn't sophisticated enough to discern that. Don't spend the profits all in one place!
 
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Re: template and actual printed cards
Reply #54 - Feb 25th, 2008, 9:57am
 
I'd rather GCU take back the seller's commision, as likely this sale cost them money.  
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Re: template and actual printed cards
Reply #55 - Feb 25th, 2008, 10:01am
 
That was supposed to be a joke, Tom. I guess I need some lessons in how to be funny. (Maybe I should buy one of your books!)
 
DK
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Re: template and actual printed cards
Reply #56 - Feb 25th, 2008, 10:19am
 
Dustin and Tom,
I just noticed your posts about the widget, and had to add my two cents.  I ordered some valentine cards not long ago going to my store to place the order without using a widget and was notified that the sale was made through a widget.  I am 100% sure that no widget should have been involved in the sale to myself.  There is definitely something odd here.  I think Dustin said he did not remember clicking on a widget either.  Anyway, thought I would add some more information so that maybe this would help the GCU folks sort things out.  Hope it helps.   Smiley
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Re: template and actual printed cards
Reply #57 - Feb 25th, 2008, 10:33am
 
Thanks, Kathy.  
 
FYI: You referred to me as a "he" when in fact I am a "she." I know most people think of Dustin as a male name, but I was actually born before Dustin Hoffman became famous and anyone had heard of the name!
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Re: template and actual printed cards
Reply #58 - Feb 25th, 2008, 10:42am
 
Hi Dustin,
Please accept my apologies!  You are right, when someone becomes famous that seems to define names.  I won't make the mistake again, though.  Thanks for clearing that up for me. Smiley
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Re: template and actual printed cards
Reply #59 - Feb 25th, 2008, 10:46am
 
That's interesting Kathy.  
 
I just so happened to use my single "store credit" just now (not sure how I got it, actually) to send out one of my cards to my Mom in New York.  
 
I received 3 emails due to this transactioin: 
The first was "you sold a card through your widget" and earned 50 cents.
The second was "you sold one of your cards" and earned $1.00 (.50 + .50)
The third was "thanks for the order" with nothing charged (as expected).
 
These may be just standard emails and the accounting system will sort it out, but I don't think we should get paid anything when free credits are used.  But then again, that might be just the way it works.  
 
I better shut-up before it really costs me something. lips sealed
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Re: template and actual printed cards
Reply #60 - Feb 25th, 2008, 12:16pm
 
Hi Tom,  
I know you get the 2nd e-mail that says you have made a sale and it tells you how much your artist fee was.  You always get the third e-mail you spoke of too when you buy a card yourself.  I don't know about the first one.  Also, I believe we get paid whether the purchase was made with a free credit or not.  Hopefuly, someone knowledgeable about widgets can answer whether or not you should get the first e-mail.
Kathy
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Re: template and actual printed cards
Reply #61 - Feb 26th, 2008, 11:18am
 
Quote from Tom_133317 on Feb 25th, 2008, 10:46am:
That's interesting Kathy.

I just so happened to use my single "store credit" just now (not sure how I got it, actually) to send out one of my cards to my Mom in New York.

I received 3 emails due to this transactioin:
The first was "you sold a card through your widget" and earned 50 cents.
The second was "you sold one of your cards" and earned $1.00 (.50 + .50)
The third was "thanks for the order" with nothing charged (as expected).

These may be just standard emails and the accounting system will sort it out, but I don't think we should get paid anything when free credits are used. But then again, that might be just the way it works.

I better shut-up before it really costs me something. lips sealed

 
Hi Tom,
 
First off, every artist receives one free greeting card credit when they join GCU, I believe we note this in the welcome email, but I suppose we could be a little more clear.
 
I'll try to clear up some of the widget questions.  
 
If someone clicks a card widget and goes all the way through to purchase a card, the artist who owns the widget gets a 50 cent seller commission for each card sold.  This much is pretty straight forward.  
 
But what happens if they click the widget but don't purchase a card?  We set a cookie on the user's machine at the time that they click a widget.  So if they leave the site without purchasing a card, but come back to the site in the next 30 days and buy a card, the widget owner will still receive a seller commission.    
 
We are still fine tuning this process and one thing to note is that up until just a few days ago, artists were able to generate seller commissions if they purchased cards through another artist's widget OR if they clicked another artist's widget any time in the last 30 days.    
 
We've modified this process so that if the buyer uses the artist discount code to make a purchase, we do not award seller commissions for that order.    
 
Tom, your order was a little different because you didn't use your artist discount, but instead used a card credit, this is why you were still able to receive seller commission.  You may not have clicked your widget to initiate this order, but the cookie may have been stored on your machine from a previous click in the last 30 days.  
 
Also, you'll receive your artist commission any time one of your cards is purchased, even if a free card credit is used.  
 
Hope I didn't confuse anyone  Shocked
 
 
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Re: template and actual printed cards
Reply #62 - Feb 28th, 2008, 1:34pm
 
Just a follow-up. Dustin emailed me a pic of her sneaky use of the fold area discussed above.  She has been successful adding some info there, and it looks pretty readable.  Dustiin gave me permission to post this photo so others can see what she's been talking about.  This is the front surface image wrapped around the fold area to the back surface of the card.  
http://www.fearlessthinkers.com/GCU/dustin_fold.jpg
 
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Reply #63 - Feb 28th, 2008, 1:40pm
 
Shaun.  That's a welcome explanation, thanks.  Can I assume that it is the last widget a shopper clicked that counts, if they have clicked more than one?
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Re: template and actual printed cards
Reply #64 - Feb 28th, 2008, 3:30pm
 
Thanks for posting that image the back of my cards, Tom.
 
One of these days I will change my artist photo to an actual photo of myself so that people won't assume that I am a male just because my name is Dustin!
 
cheers,
Dustin
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Re: template and actual printed cards
Reply #65 - Feb 29th, 2008, 11:20am
 
Welllllll ... I got my test cards back.  5.2x7.2 inches (1560x2160 @ 300 dpi) works and gives you an image that is the exact same size as your design.  I printed a vertical and a horizontal version of the image ... a series of rectangles with a crosshair in the middle.  The center is identical on both cards.  Take the horizontal card rotate it counter clockwise and you have the exact same card face as the vertical.  Looking at the vertical card, as close as my eyes will let me measure, the center crosshair is printed .05" left of center (towards the fold) and .025" down from the top.  That should mean that center of the image on the 5.2x7.2 should be at ... ummmmm ... lemme see here ...  divide by pi ... carry the 17 ... 2.65"x3.625"???? (795x10875.5 @ 300 dpi)???? That should move the center of the image over to the right and up to get it back into the center of the card.
 
Sooo ... did I do that right?
 
And of course this only matters to someone who is nutz or want's to get close to perfectly even borders around their cards.  OK so maybe just someone who is nutz then.  But this really will work better than just using a 5x7 and hoping for the best.
 
Here's the kicker though you want to design for your 5x7 proportions (1x1.4) and place that at the right center within the 5.2x7.2.
 
And remember if you are designing bigger or smaller just keep in mind what is going to happen to your image ... it's going to be printed to FILL the 5.2x7.2.  so regardless of what size your image is, the printed size of the smallest dimension before trimming is going to be 5.2".  
 
Now I gotta go over and crack RedBubble ... they say to avoid borders over there!   Grin
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Re: template and actual printed cards
Reply #66 - Feb 29th, 2008, 11:50am
 
Dear Dr. Harry Template -
 
Where is the 0,0 point in your world (lower left?) and how much of the  
test image wrapped over the fold.  ( +/-.001 please )   Smiley
 
Thanks for doing this.  
 
TOM
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Re: template and actual printed cards
Reply #67 - Feb 29th, 2008, 12:22pm
 
Quote from Tom_133317 on Feb 29th, 2008, 11:50am:
Dear Dr. Harry Template -

Where is the 0,0 point in your world (lower left?) and how much of the
test image wrapped over the fold.  ( +/-.001 please )   Smiley

Thanks for doing this.  

TOM

 
 Grin  0,0 is lower left in my world ... not quite .15" over the fold ... and I can only do +/- .0125 ... my eyes just ain't that good any more.  I use to be able to do that 1 to 50 on the scale but just can't get there anymore ... Grin
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Re: template and actual printed cards
Reply #68 - Feb 29th, 2008, 12:27pm
 
Quote from Harry_132595 on Feb 29th, 2008, 12:22pm:

Grin  0,0 is lower left in my world ... not quite .15" over the fold ... and I can only do +/- .0125 ... my eyes just ain't that good any more.  I use to be able to do that 1 to 50 on the scale but just can't get there anymore ... Grin

 
BTW ... if you create a template that is 5.2x7.2 and put the 5x7 at the right center within that ... you'll have a pretty good guide as to what's over the fold.
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Reply #69 - Feb 29th, 2008, 12:29pm
 
Oh and keep in mind this will work ... until the printer gets new equipment ... then that center will most likely move.  Grin
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Re: template and actual printed cards
Reply #70 - Feb 29th, 2008, 1:20pm
 
Harry,
 
So just to be clear.  The center of a 1560x2160 template is 780,1080.
You're saying that true center of the printed cards you made turned out to be at 795,1088.  This is a shift of .05" to the right and .027" upwards.  
 
This is less than 1/16th (.0625) of an inch, so unless someone needs their borders extemely even, this could essentially be ignored.
It's interesting you found an overap on the ford of 0.15" where the ones I've received are closer to 0.1" which is what Shaun mentioned as well.  That's almost a 1/16th-inch difference and demostrates that there will be some giggle in this area.
 
Thanks again for doing this.  
 
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Re: template and actual printed cards
Reply #71 - Feb 29th, 2008, 2:14pm
 
Quote from Tom_133317 on Feb 29th, 2008, 1:20pm:
Harry,

So just to be clear.  The center of a 1560x2160 template is 780,1080.
You're saying that true center of the printed cards you made turned out to be at 795,1088.  This is a shift of .05" to the right and .027" upwards.

This is less than 1/16th (.0625) of an inch, so unless someone needs their borders extemely even, this could essentially be ignored.
It's interesting you found an overap on the ford of 0.15" where the ones I've received are closer to 0.1" which is what Shaun mentioned as well.  That's almost a 1/16th-inch difference and demostrates that there will be some giggle in this area.

Thanks again for doing this.  


 
Guess it depends on the size of the borders you are using and the design ... actually 1/16" can be very noticeable.  Depends on how picky you are too.  On the test card I had a 3/8" border based on the 5x7.  At the fold it's just over 5/16 and on the other edge it's 7/16.  Less than a 16th of an inch difference.  I can see it plainly.  The wider the borders get I'm sure it becomes less visible.  
 
My cards are very consistent and I've always had significantly more than .1" over the fold for 9 cards.  I'm using an engineers scale marked in .05" increments.  All I can tell ya is what I'm measuring.
 
And remember where this all started as far as borders go.  People were using the the 5x7 template and were bothered that their borders were smaller and uneven.  Well of course they were.  The card was getting enlarged and not only was there an offset to deal with, they were loosing .3 inches in one direction and only .2 in the other.
 
And like I said anyway ... this probably ony matters to someone who is nutz ... but it was an interesting exercise in futility.   Grin
 
   
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Re: template and actual printed cards
Reply #72 - Mar 4th, 2008, 5:14am
 
Hmmm ... well folks seem to have lost interest in this thread ... but if you look at my Easter cards you'll see that I am puttin my template where my mouth is.  If the centering and sizing is wrong on these cards they will really look nasty LOL
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Re: template and actual printed cards
Reply #73 - Mar 9th, 2008, 8:30pm
 
OK, I'm with Cara here.
 
I have no real clue what I shall do with that template Smiley
 
Anyhow, most of my cards will be borderless, so, if my image is bigger than 2100 x 1500 it will just be resized automatically, no?
 
*I'm lost*  Huh
 
Edit:
Oups, it was another thread I wanted to reply to, but my question fits in here as well - only that Xara didn't say anything, scratch that quote Tongue
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Re: template and actual printed cards
Reply #74 - Mar 11th, 2008, 10:38am
 
Quote from Nicole_133385 on Mar 9th, 2008, 8:30pm:
OK, I'm with Cara here.

I have no real clue what I shall do with that template Smiley

Anyhow, most of my cards will be borderless, so, if my image is bigger than 2100 x 1500 it will just be resized automatically, no?

*I'm lost* Huh

Edit:
Oups, it was another thread I wanted to reply to, but my question fits in here as well - only that Xara didn't say anything, scratch that quote Tongue

 
Hi Nicole,
 
Images larger than 2100x1500 will be scaled down, however if your image doesn't scale proportionately to 2100x1500 it may be stretched, so we highly recommend sizing your images at our recommended dimensions.
 
The template was designed to be the starting point when you create your images, so that the images you upload meet recommended dimensions and resolution.  You can hide the Template Guide layer and use the red border to ensure text and other important detail will be included in the printed image.  Just be sure to hide the red border before exporting your image to jpg
 
You can also paste your 1500x2100 or 2100x1500 pixel (at 300 dpi or ppi) images on to the template to verify that all text and other important detail will be included in the printed image.
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Re: template and actual printed cards
Reply #75 - Mar 11th, 2008, 7:03pm
 
Thanks, Shaun.
 
 Smiley
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Reply #76 - Mar 11th, 2008, 8:42pm
 
I was dreading to do this (change the image sizes), but one big, huge thanks to you all from GCU - your servers are fast and it goes quick and painless.
 
Thanks a million Smiley!!!
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Re: template and actual printed cards
Reply #77 - Mar 13th, 2008, 8:02am
 
Quote from Shaun_131054 on Mar 11th, 2008, 10:38am:

Hi Nicole,

Images larger than 2100x1500 will be scaled down, however if your image doesn't scale proportionately to 2100x1500 it may be stretched, so we highly recommend sizing your images at our recommended dimensions.

The template was designed to be the starting point when you create your images, so that the images you upload meet recommended dimensions and resolution.  You can hide the Template Guide layer and use the red border to ensure text and other important detail will be included in the printed image.  Just be sure to hide the red border before exporting your image to jpg

You can also paste your 1500x2100 or 2100x1500 pixel (at 300 dpi or ppi) images on to the template to verify that all text and other important detail will be included in the printed image.

 
There are a couple of problems with what you just said here Shaun ...
 
First ...  Like I explained earlier in the thread, the 1500x2100 template doesn't really work all that well because of the enlarging that goes on during the printing process.  Is it close enough?  Depends on what you are doing.  People will get more accurate results using a 1560x2160 template.  Your printer told you the print area is 5.2x7.2 ... it would be better if your template reflected that.
 
Second ... larger and/or out of proportion images are not "stretched".  They are printed to "fill" and then cropped.  There is a difference.  It's exactly like all those borderless prints folks got for years from 35mm negs ... the edges of the image are simply cut off.  Nicole, you are familiar with that issue I'm sure.
 
Here's what happens in the process ...
 
You start a 1500x2100 image.  It is enlarged to 1560x2184 for printing. The print area is 1560x1260 so for starters 24 pix are just lost in the long dimension.  Then the printed image is essentially cropped down to 1500x2100 on the finished face of the card.  Some of the image ends up past the fold and the other 3 sides are trimmed off.  
 
And of course there is the slight center offset ... which I agree is tiny but it is there.
 
As I mentioned before ... this whole thread started with folks talking about borders and printed cards not looking like the previews or as they intended.  If you keep recommending the 1500x2100 template, that issue will never go away for those folks who it matters to and new folks coming in will go through the same frustration, particularly if their cards have some sort of border.  
   
Just some thoughts.
 
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Reply #78 - Mar 13th, 2008, 8:39am
 
Thank you, Harry - am mainly borderless and have some room around most of my pics. They are all 300dpi, so no quality loss either.
I should be, except for two which I'll redo on the safe side.
 
But thanks again for the explanation. This time I understood what you are saying, before I was just lost with all those numbers  Cool.
 
And no, I haven't shot film before.....would love to, oh well Wink
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Re: template and actual printed cards
Reply #79 - Mar 13th, 2008, 10:56am
 
Quote from Harry_132595 on Mar 13th, 2008, 8:02am:
Quote from Shaun_131054 on Mar 11th, 2008, 10:38am:

Hi Nicole,

Images larger than 2100x1500 will be scaled down, however if your image doesn't scale proportionately to 2100x1500 it may be stretched, so we highly recommend sizing your images at our recommended dimensions.

The template was designed to be the starting point when you create your images, so that the images you upload meet recommended dimensions and resolution. You can hide the Template Guide layer and use the red border to ensure text and other important detail will be included in the printed image. Just be sure to hide the red border before exporting your image to jpg

You can also paste your 1500x2100 or 2100x1500 pixel (at 300 dpi or ppi) images on to the template to verify that all text and other important detail will be included in the printed image.


There are a couple of problems with what you just said here Shaun ...

First ... Like I explained earlier in the thread, the 1500x2100 template doesn't really work all that well because of the enlarging that goes on during the printing process. Is it close enough? Depends on what you are doing. People will get more accurate results using a 1560x2160 template. Your printer told you the print area is 5.2x7.2 ... it would be better if your template reflected that.

Second ... larger and/or out of proportion images are not "stretched". They are printed to "fill" and then cropped. There is a difference. It's exactly like all those borderless prints folks got for years from 35mm negs ... the edges of the image are simply cut off. Nicole, you are familiar with that issue I'm sure.

Here's what happens in the process ...

You start a 1500x2100 image. It is enlarged to 1560x2184 for printing. The print area is 1560x1260 so for starters 24 pix are just lost in the long dimension. Then the printed image is essentially cropped down to 1500x2100 on the finished face of the card. Some of the image ends up past the fold and the other 3 sides are trimmed off.

And of course there is the slight center offset ... which I agree is tiny but it is there.

As I mentioned before ... this whole thread started with folks talking about borders and printed cards not looking like the previews or as they intended. If you keep recommending the 1500x2100 template, that issue will never go away for those folks who it matters to and new folks coming in will go through the same frustration, particularly if their cards have some sort of border.

Just some thoughts.


 
 
Thanks Harry.  A 1560x2160 template is in the works.  We only recently found out that the print area was 5.2x7.2, so we had been conducting our own tests, and will be changing the site recommendations soon.  
 
If your samples indicate that the images were printed to fill then cropped, I'll take your word for it.  We're actually still waiting on a reply from our fulfillment partner on whether images are stretched or printed to fill.
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Re: template and actual printed cards
Reply #80 - Mar 13th, 2008, 11:43am
 
Quote from Shaun_131054 on Mar 13th, 2008, 10:56am:


Thanks Harry.  A 1560x2160 template is in the works.  We only recently found out that the print area was 5.2x7.2, so we had been conducting our own tests, and will be changing the site recommendations soon.  

If your samples indicate that the images were printed to fill then cropped, I'll take your word for it.  We're actually still waiting on a reply from our fulfillment partner on whether images are stretched or printed to fill.  

 
Glad that helped Nicole,
 
Shaun ... I'll stake my life on it!  Grin
 
Well please don't make me, but it just sounds really confident when you say that!
 
No question in my mind it is "fill then crop".  Seeing how the rectangles fell and  running some calcs on the sizes of them on my first test convinced me of that  On my 5.2x7.2 test the rectangles came out the exact size they were supposed to be, just off centered a little.  And with my little crosshairs I'm certain I've found the center for the 5x7 face as close as it can be.
 
What can I say  ... I AM a little crazy.   Shocked   Grin
   
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Re: template and actual printed cards
Reply #81 - Mar 13th, 2008, 1:46pm
 
Quote from Shaun_131054 on Mar 13th, 2008, 10:56am:
Quote from Harry_132595 on Mar 13th, 2008, 8:02am:
Quote from Shaun_131054 on Mar 11th, 2008, 10:38am:

Hi Nicole,

Images larger than 2100x1500 will be scaled down, however if your image doesn't scale proportionately to 2100x1500 it may be stretched, so we highly recommend sizing your images at our recommended dimensions.

The template was designed to be the starting point when you create your images, so that the images you upload meet recommended dimensions and resolution.  You can hide the Template Guide layer and use the red border to ensure text and other important detail will be included in the printed image.  Just be sure to hide the red border before exporting your image to jpg

You can also paste your 1500x2100 or 2100x1500 pixel (at 300 dpi or ppi) images on to the template to verify that all text and other important detail will be included in the printed image.


There are a couple of problems with what you just said here Shaun ...

First ...  Like I explained earlier in the thread, the 1500x2100 template doesn't really work all that well because of the enlarging that goes on during the printing process.  Is it close enough?  Depends on what you are doing.  People will get more accurate results using a 1560x2160 template.  Your printer told you the print area is 5.2x7.2 ... it would be better if your template reflected that.

Second ... larger and/or out of proportion images are not "stretched".  They are printed to "fill" and then cropped.  There is a difference.  It's exactly like all those borderless prints folks got for years from 35mm negs ... the edges of the image are simply cut off.  Nicole, you are familiar with that issue I'm sure.

Here's what happens in the process ...

You start a 1500x2100 image.  It is enlarged to 1560x2184 for printing. The print area is 1560x1260 so for starters 24 pix are just lost in the long dimension.  Then the printed image is essentially cropped down to 1500x2100 on the finished face of the card.  Some of the image ends up past the fold and the other 3 sides are trimmed off.  

And of course there is the slight center offset ... which I agree is tiny but it is there.

As I mentioned before ... this whole thread started with folks talking about borders and printed cards not looking like the previews or as they intended.  If you keep recommending the 1500x2100 template, that issue will never go away for those folks who it matters to and new folks coming in will go through the same frustration, particularly if their cards have some sort of border.
 
Just some thoughts.




Thanks Harry.  A 1560x2160 template is in the works.  We only recently found out that the print area was 5.2x7.2, so we had been conducting our own tests, and will be changing the site recommendations soon.  

If your samples indicate that the images were printed to fill then cropped, I'll take your word for it.  We're actually still waiting on a reply from our fulfillment partner on whether images are stretched or printed to fill.  

 
Shaun,
 
If you change the site recommendations on how we need to create our images for the cards, are we going to have to revamp ALL of our images to comply?  Otherwise our old images won't fit to the new way you are requiring to fit.  I've been using the templates you currently had us download with no modifications and they have been working just fine.  I don't have a lot of images that I would have to redo (only 49 so far). However, with all this talk of modifications, I'm not making anymore cards until you all decide which end is up.  I'd really like to get this business up and rolling, but I don't have time to be redoing images.  Or, are you going to make sure the images that are currently uploaded will not have to be modified and reuploaded.
 
I've had a loss of my main computer, though I've been able to backup all my cards and images, I had an unfortunate loss of some fonts that I had used on cards already created and I'm not able to locate those fonts for me to use on my current system.  If I'm going to have to redo cards, it will create havoc in my life that I really don't want right now.  I'm sure there are other artists here that have many more cards than I do, that would not want to have to redo ALL their cards.
 
Please let us know what will be happening.  I'm waiting before I do anymore cards. undecided
 
Shari
www.flowerswithfeelingscentral.com
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Re: template and actual printed cards
Reply #82 - Mar 13th, 2008, 4:35pm
 
Hi Shari,
 
Not trying to speak for Shaun ... but
 
If you are satisfied with the way your images are printing you don't need to change anything at all.  All your images and even future images you create using the same template you are comfortable with now will continue to print just the same as they always have.  Nothing is changinge with the printing process itself.
 
Tweeking the template a little will hopefully just give folks who have had some issues with their results a little more control in the process.  That's all.  
 
I'm sorry if things got confusing here.  I feel a little bit ... maybe even a lot ... responsible for that.  I will freely admit what we have been talking about here are rather small dimensional issues that most folks here don't really care about or are even affected by.  Mostly the new template will help people who like to see a nice even border around the edge of their cards get just that.
 
Harry
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Re: template and actual printed cards
Reply #83 - Mar 13th, 2008, 5:33pm
 
Shari,
 
Harry's post above is right on.  The printing process has not changed.   If you're using the current template and are content with the end result, then you don't need to change anything.  
 
I guess you can say that we are trying to fine-tune the process with the new recommendations and template.   The new template should give users a much better idea of how their printed cards will look.
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Re: template and actual printed cards
Reply #84 - Mar 14th, 2008, 12:26pm
 
Quote from Shaun_131054 on Mar 13th, 2008, 5:33pm:
Shari,

Harry's post above is right on.  The printing process has not changed.   If you're using the current template and are content with the end result, then you don't need to change anything.  

I guess you can say that we are trying to fine-tune the process with the new recommendations and template.   The new template should give users a much better idea of how their printed cards will look.  

 
Okay!  Thanks Harry and Shaun!
 
So when will this new template be made available to the artist public to use?  Will you make a big announcement?
 
I've got so many irons in the fire I currently don't know which end is up.  If you could send a GIANT NOTIFICATION that a NEW template is available for us artists to use and go to this link to download it and instructions on how to use it, that will make life a little smoother for me and I'm sure everyone else that are busier than I am.
 
Thanks for all your help!  Grin
 
Shari
www.flowerswithfeelingscentral.com
 
 
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Shaun_131054
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Re: template and actual printed cards
Reply #85 - Mar 14th, 2008, 3:16pm
 
Quote from Shari_132735 on Mar 14th, 2008, 12:26pm:
Quote from Shaun_131054 on Mar 13th, 2008, 5:33pm:
Shari,

Harry's post above is right on. The printing process has not changed. If you're using the current template and are content with the end result, then you don't need to change anything.

I guess you can say that we are trying to fine-tune the process with the new recommendations and template. The new template should give users a much better idea of how their printed cards will look.


Okay! Thanks Harry and Shaun!

So when will this new template be made available to the artist public to use? Will you make a big announcement?

I've got so many irons in the fire I currently don't know which end is up. If you could send a GIANT NOTIFICATION that a NEW template is available for us artists to use and go to this link to download it and instructions on how to use it, that will make life a little smoother for me and I'm sure everyone else that are busier than I am.

Thanks for all your help! Grin

Shari
www.flowerswithfeelingscentral.com



 
The template will likely be available in the next few weeks.   We'll make an announcement in the News and Announcements section of the forum at that time.
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