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Image Security - Watermark (Read 10531 times)
Mindy
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Image Security - Watermark
Feb 21st, 2007, 12:27pm
 
On the top of our list is putting in place a security measure to protect your artwork images.  
 
Although the images on GCU can not be captured in a resolution that will reproduce a high quality print, we agree with your concerns and are going use image watermarks on the larger images (not on the thumbnail images and due to the nature ecards, no watermarks on ecards).  
 
We'd like to inhibit the card shopping experience as little as possible by using a subtle watermark that conveys a positive message to the shoppers.  Since cards will be sold across other sites we will not use GCU in the watermark.
 
Perhaps something like:  
"Image Rights", "Sample Artwork", "Protected Artwork", "Protected Image", "Image Sample", "Sample Image"...
 
Here is a sample:  http://www.greetingcarduniverse.com/community/sample.jpg
 
Please express your opinions and suggestions here!
 
Thanks for your input, Mindy
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« Last Edit: Feb 21st, 2007, 2:43pm by Mindy »  
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Jim_131308
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Re: Image Security - Watermark
Reply #1 - Feb 21st, 2007, 4:24pm
 
I like it!
 
The actual wording can be whatever you'd like, maybe  
 
SAMPLE IMAGE or  
 
COPYRIGHTED IMAGE  
THIS WATERMARK DOES  
NOT PRINT
 
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Stella_131317
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Re: Image Security - Watermark
Reply #2 - Feb 21st, 2007, 4:42pm
 
This is awesome!  Smiley  
 
I have no preference as to the wording but am really thrilled that  
the images will be secured.
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Re: Image Security - Watermark
Reply #3 - Feb 22nd, 2007, 12:50am
 
Some version of the watermark will work fine.  
 
It would be prudent to include:
- something about the watermark not printing on the actual card,
- and that this image/artwork is copyrighted material.  
 
-- PJ Ryan
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Christine_131252
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Re: Image Security - Watermark
Reply #4 - Feb 22nd, 2007, 4:11pm
 
Another great improvement to GCU!  Thanks very much! This site gets better and better.
Christine
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mishka(Guest)
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Re: Image Security - Watermark
Reply #5 - Feb 22nd, 2007, 5:09pm
 
another recommendation... in addition to the watermark, disable right-clicking on images. I just stole my own image.
Tongue
mishka
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Amy(Guest)
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Re: Image Security - Watermark
Reply #6 - Feb 23rd, 2007, 10:58am
 
I'm so relieved that a watermark will be added. That has been my main concern.
It's way too easy for people to click on the enlarged image and just copy it.
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Re: Image Security - Watermark
Reply #7 - Feb 24th, 2007, 12:21pm
 
I am not a member YET... excited to become one, though.  I was wondering how soon you think this will be taking effect?
 
Thanks,
Christie
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Re: Image Security - Watermark
Reply #8 - Feb 24th, 2007, 6:31pm
 
I like the sample. Thanks for acting on this concern. Smiley
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Jim_131308
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Re: Image Security - Watermark
Reply #9 - Feb 25th, 2007, 6:12am
 
Mindy,
 
This morning I was looking through the site and decided to take a look at the thumbnail images (you said were not going to be watermarked).
 
I grabbed some at random and they are 1.8" x 2.49" at 100dpi.
 
Did you know I can simply copy these images and was able to use them without anything but scaling up (or down in one case) on MANY products from other online sites and if I were a thief, I could easily sell products with using these images and the quality would be more than acceptable. (I sell items through some POD sites and none of them really sell cards, which is why I was happy to find this site).
 
I was able to scale images to use on buttons, magnets, mugs, stickers, small shirts, greeting cards, a teddy bear, hat.
 
Why are thumbnail images of such high resolution? And in JPG format?
 
My involvement here I believe would be of benefit to both myself and GCU but if anyone can swipe even the thumbnails and use them to sell on what I have listed above (and that took all of 5 minutes) there are serious deficiencies in the protection you are offering your artists.
 
I realize nothing is 100% safe. That's a given. However, it should not be acceptable to have someone spend all of 5 minutes and be able to take an image, use it on many items and be able to make money from it. This is just from people who might wander into the site. How bad will it be when people see these quality of images, unprotected via Google?
 
I'll keep checking back from time to time and maybe one day I'll jump in. Right now, you have way too many problems as theft of images is guaranteed in the manner in which you have your site set up.
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« Last Edit: Feb 25th, 2007, 1:34pm by Jim_131308 »  

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Mindy
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Re: Image Security - Watermark
Reply #10 - Feb 26th, 2007, 2:04pm
 
Our image security measures are scheduled to be live on 3/1.
 
That includes the watermarking as well as right-click disablement.
 
Jim,
If we disable right-click function on the thumbnails is that sufficient or would you like to see watermark on those too?
 
Thanks for the opinions!  We are moving forward based on your collective input and are absolutely committed to putting in place precautions for artists to be comfortable using our service.  It is priority #1!
 
 
Mindy
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Jim_131308
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Re: Image Security - Watermark
Reply #11 - Feb 26th, 2007, 4:18pm
 
Hi Mindy,
 
Your willingness to quickly address issues is to be admired.
 
Disabling right click is something that can be done and it does not hurt.
 
My initial thought is why are thumbnails such a high resolution and in jpg format? even disabling right click I am assuming, and maybe I am wrong, that there will be some sort of google/froogle/type feed?  Once that happens (and I am all for a feed of some sort) the images are out in the "wild". A disable right click won't do a thing for a search engine spider cataloging the images.
 
A combination of your proactive steps and a downgraded thumbnail image resolution should  cover just about everything anyone could expect you to do for image protection.
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Re: Image Security - Watermark
Reply #12 - Feb 26th, 2007, 6:51pm
 
Just checking in to see how it is going!
 
 
I will check back on the 1st! Smiley
 
PS: Jim do you think 72 dpi would help on the thumbnails?
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Mindy
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Re: Image Security - Watermark
Reply #13 - Feb 27th, 2007, 9:54pm
 
Here's the latest update:
1. Watermarks are complete, you should see them on your images now with the exception of thumbnail images.
 
2. Right click functions on images have been disabled on card images including thumbnails (this may not yet be complete with so many thumbnail locations - wip).
 
Our last step is evaluating if the thumbnail images need any further adjustment for protection.  
 
Progress is good  Smiley  Thanks as always for your help.
Mindy
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Amy(Guest)
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Re: Image Security - Watermark
Reply #14 - Mar 8th, 2007, 4:26am
 
The watermark is fantastic.  Grin Thanks for adding it. I feel much better with it there.
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David_131259
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Re: Image Security - Watermark
Reply #15 - Mar 26th, 2007, 12:21pm
 
[quote author=131308 link=1172089671/0#11 date=1172535531]Hi Mindy,
 
Your willingness to quickly address issues is to be admired.
 
Disabling right click is something that can be done and it does not hurt.
 
Disabling right click only impacts your mother if she wants to use the image in her cross-stitch program. It does not keep people from saving the image on their hard drive. While I am an artist part time, web security is my full-time gig.  
 
If someone wants the image all they have to do is save the webpage with the thumbnails. They will then all be saved on the local. If the view their cache directory the images are there already. So the people you have to worry about are the people overseas who will take your art and create hundreds of them. Not the one or two Granma’s.
 
The only way to really make it difficult is to use the model YouTube has made. Each image is created as a flash (swf) file, and then loaded within an application created in flash to view that image. Then the swf files with the content are created to only run severed from your servers.
 
In my opinion when you disable right click you are just taking away from the users experience and adding absolutely no benefit. Kind of like not letting you take more than a few ounces of toothpaste on the plane.
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Jim_131308
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Re: Image Security - Watermark
Reply #16 - Mar 27th, 2007, 6:38am
 
Quote from 131259 on Mar 26th, 2007, 12:21pm:


Disabling right click only impacts your mother if she wants to use the image in her cross-stitch program. It does not keep people from saving the image on their hard drive. While I am an artist part time, web security is my full-time gig.

 
No disabling right click puts up a small barrier (very small but still a barrier) to prevent theft of your artwork. It does not matter if it is your mother or a kid wanting to use it as an avatar on My Space.
 
Quote:
If someone wants the image all they have to do is save the webpage with the thumbnails. They will then all be saved on the local. If the view their cache directory the images are there already. So the people you have to worry about are the people overseas who will take your art and create hundreds of them. Not the one or two Granma’s.

 
They are both the same. If Grandma swipes my image for any use that's just as illegal as a sweat shop knocking out apparel with my image that was swiped.  
 
Quote:
The only way to really make it difficult is to use the model YouTube has made. Each image is created as a flash (swf) file, and then loaded within an application created in flash to view that image. Then the swf files with the content are created to only run severed from your servers.

 
Nothing secure, not even your YouTube example. There are plenty of ways to pull you tube video onto your computer and they are simple (democracy player for one).
 
The fact that security measures can be gone around does not mean they are useless. They will not stop a thief bent on taking what's yours, but they may prevent the person that thinks, "I like this and want this" and then realize they can't.
 
By your reasoning, why lock your house? I can easily enter your home by breaking a window so why close the window? The reason is the closed window will deter an impulse theft as opposed to just being an annoyance to a large scale crook.
 
Quote:
In my opinion when you disable right click you are just taking away from the users experience and adding absolutely no benefit. Kind of like not letting you take more than a few ounces of toothpaste on the plane.

 
By disabling right click you are taking nothing from the user. They are at a site like this to buy a product, disabling right click does not prevent or hinder that in way, shape, or form.
 
Images are taken and used for purposes they are not meant to be used for and the artists are not paid for their use. People earn their living creating images and the last thing anyone wants is to be suspect on any site like this that offers POD merchandise. If GCU didn't at least take some basic steps to protect my images, I and i am sure many others, would not have done business here. Some of us have spent a lot of time and money creating our art, copyrighting it, trademarking, etc.. It's not just an image.
 
Like the lock on my door, it can be broken, my home can be entered despite the precautions I take but I eliminate some of the threat by taking basic steps to protect my safety.
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David_131259
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Re: Image Security - Watermark
Reply #17 - Mar 28th, 2007, 12:34pm
 
[quote author=131308 link=1172089671/15#16 date=1175002710][quote author=131259 link=1172089671/15#15 date=1174936892]
 
Disabling right click is NO security, LOL. I just save the page and I have that all other images. In your example with democracy player I would have to search for the program, install it, probably infect my computer with spyware, due to many of those countermeasures are created for the purpose to propagate nefarious activity. The majority of people will not go to that extreme. That is why you do not see hundreds of extraneous sites ganking youTube videos stealing their content. You may also see the democracy player go away due to issues with the DCMA.  
 
As far as nothing being 100% secure you are right there.  
 
As far as not impacting the user, a large majority of users find it an annoyance when you disable functions of their normal browser experience. You may think your page looks great with the color scroll bar, another user gets teed off because it is not how they expect it. You can modify my history file so I cannot go back to the referring site easily. If you do that to me, I will not use your site.
 
The better solution in my opinion is water marks and make sure your thumbnails are small and low quality. You are not going to buy a card based on the thumbnails. Most people will click it and view the card in a larger and higher quality image.
 
Once they open this up to more than artists they will start getting emails from the users and they may be surprised by the number of complaints something that seems innocuous draws.
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David_131259
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Re: Image Security - Watermark
Reply #18 - Mar 28th, 2007, 12:54pm
 
[quote author=131308 link=1172089671/15#16 date=1175002710][quote author=131259 link=1172089671/15#15 date=1174936892]
 
 
 
Quote:

Nothing secure, not even your YouTube example. There are plenty of ways to pull you tube video onto your computer and they are simple (democracy player for one).
impulse theft as opposed to just being an annoyance to a large scale crook.

 
You made it seem like the democracy player reverse engineer the you Tube files. That was why I said there may be issues with the DCMA and shut down. The democracy player is just an aggregator, so it uses the API's that you tube has exposed and rss to allow you to view the files, but YouTube allows it as another distribution channel. It doesn’t appear like the democracy player allows you to steal the file and reuse it. It just uses YouTubes standard tools. So if the decide to not allow a video it probably isn't available via the democracy player anymore either?
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David_131259
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Re: Image Security - Watermark
Reply #19 - Mar 28th, 2007, 1:10pm
 
Here is more information on why it is bad to disable right clicking. This will be my last post on this issue. I am just passionit about usability and security.
 
It explains why you should NOT disable right click and has interesting ways to protect images instead.
 
http://www.sitepoint.com/article/dont-disable-right-click/2
 
Here is one saying why you should not use it and some browsers ignore it.
 
http://javascript.about.com/library/blnoright.htm
 
here is one from the Microsoft Blogs.
 
http://blogs.msdn.com/jeffdav/archive/2004/05/06/127443.aspx
 
More ranting on this issue LOL
 
http://archives.hwg.org/hwg-graphics/5.0.2.1.2.20010322061955.00a73450@pop.video tron.ca
 
Here is another article on why it is not good. Why it is an annoyance. Some people may be use to useing their right click to navigate back or change encoding. Especially if they need that capability. Like they are legally blind and the encoding for this site is western EY and they need UTF for their reader?
 
http://www.retireat21.com/guide/105
 
I like this quote from it.
 
"Do you see websites like Google, Yahoo, Amazon etc disabling RIGHT CLICK? Of course not! Now if they are not doing it, perhaps there are good reasons for that.
 
Frankly when I find websites disabled - I think Amateur / Gimmick - and someone who is pretty naive - if they think that stops their content being copied."
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Jim_131308
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Re: Image Security - Watermark
Reply #20 - Mar 29th, 2007, 10:20am
 
[quote author=131259 link=1172089671/15#17 date=1175110461][quote author=131308 link=1172089671/15#16 date=1175002710]Quote from 131259 on Mar 26th, 2007, 12:21pm:


Disabling right click is NO security, LOL. I just save the page and I have that all other images.

 
Locking your Anderson window or True Value door lock at home is no security either but most people do so.
 
90% or more of the computer users know drag and drop, they don't know saving the page to their local drive, screen shot, etc.
 
It is not security that will stop someone of snagging the image other ways but it eliminates the easiest and most popular way. Theft is theft.
 
I still go by original example. Why lock your windows or doors at home because someone can easily enter your home.  
 
You are right in stating it is not providing a high degree of security and may get in the way of people who actually know computers, security, etc.  I am stating that the people you are talking about are not the norm and are not thinking of image theft, just looking for something to sue as an avatar or their school newsletter clip art.
 
Any site using original creations is obligated to protect the rights and trademarks of those supplying the creative elements. Part of that is disabling the easiest and most common ways theft occurs.
 
You lock your home because it is easy, inexpensive and will stop most impulse thieves.
 
 
Quote:
As far as not impacting the user, a large majority of users find it an annoyance when you disable functions of their normal browser experience. You may think your page looks great with the color scroll bar, another user gets teed off because it is not how they expect it. You can modify my history file so I cannot go back to the referring site easily. If you do that to me, I will not use your site.

 
And any of this has what to do with disabling right click? Those who use right click to copy an image are doing exactly what many creative don't want them to do, steal artwork. This is not complicated.
 
Quote:
Once they open this up to more than artists they will start getting emails from the users and they may be surprised by the number of complaints something that seems innocuous draws.

 
Again, this has what to do with the discussion?  If people complain they can't copy an image off a site, so what? They are not supposed to copy an image off the site.  They are supposed to purchase the product with the image on it so the company paying for this site and the artist who created the image are paid for their time. This is not complicated or difficult to fathom. Don't steal.
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Re: Image Security - Watermark
Reply #21 - Mar 29th, 2007, 10:22am
 
Quote from 131259 on Mar 28th, 2007, 1:10pm:
Here is more information on why it is bad to disable right clicking. This will be my last post on this issue. I am just passionit about usability and security.

 
And many are passionate about the images they create.
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Mindy
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Re: Image Security - Watermark OPTIONAL
Reply #22 - Jul 19th, 2007, 2:23pm
 
To give artists increased flexibility, we've made the image watermark optional.  This is for artists who are not concerned about image misuse and prefer not to obstruct the visual of their online images.
 
On the Card Creation and edit page this is a checkbox option that can be unchecked.  The default is checked ON to include the watermark.  
 
A future consideration related to this is a global option to turn the watermark on/off your entire gallery.
 
Mindy
 
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Re: Image Security - Watermark
Reply #23 - Jul 19th, 2007, 11:06pm
 
I really have mixed feelings about this
I hate to see the watermarks on the cards, I feel that if someone wants to steal the image all they have to do is buy the card and reproduce the image.
I personally welcome the disable watermark function
Just my 2 bits
Terry
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Re: Image Security - Watermark
Reply #24 - Jul 20th, 2007, 2:02am
 
Quote from Terry_131260 on Jul 19th, 2007, 11:06pm:
I really have mixed feelings about this
I hate to see the watermarks on the cards, I feel that if someone wants to steal the image all they have to do is buy the card and reproduce the image.
I personally welcome the disable watermark function
Just my 2 bits
Terry
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I agree with you Terry.    In many cases the watermark messes up the image, specially if there is any text as part of the image.   As you mentioned, anyone can buy one's card for a few dollars and scan it at the highest resolution.    I think there is a wide range of opinions on this topic, thats why we decided to offer it as an option.
 
Nasser
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Re: Image Security - Watermark
Reply #25 - Sep 21st, 2007, 1:48pm
 
'Image Sample' sounds more tempting--like here's a taste---buy if you want even better!  
 
-Kerra
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Re: Image Security - Watermark
Reply #26 - Sep 21st, 2007, 1:55pm
 
Shocked
 
(eating popcorn and enjoying this volley of information)
 
So informative--great debate!  
 
-Kerra
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Mindy
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Re: Image Security - Watermark
Reply #27 - Sep 21st, 2007, 2:57pm
 
More "food for thought" on this topic...  
 
We believe that an image protection watermark is a small deterent from image theft & misuse as well as watermarks in general being asthetically intrusive to the art.  However we also believe that it is important that we offer this option for our Artists.  
 
Since the watermark is now an optional feature, we have made the following changes:  
 
- For NEW joining artists, the default setting for Image Watermark is OFF.  It can easily be turned ON during the card creation process and/or using the Global Preferences tool (http://www.greetingcarduniverse.com/community/edit_globals.asp)  
 
- We are presently testing a less instrusive watermark.  It can be seen on new cards.  
 
o Testing Watermark:  
http://www.greetingcarduniverse.com/community/viewdetails.asp?pid=90454&page =1  
 
COMPARED TO  
 
o Existing Watermark:  
http://www.greetingcarduniverse.com/community/viewdetails.asp?pid=50609&page =1  
 
What do you think about the different watermarks?  
 
Mindy
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Re: Image Security - Watermark
Reply #28 - Sep 21st, 2007, 6:40pm
 
I like the new one just find--wording and all--will the wording be located like that (twice) across all images?  or is it random?  Hard to tell--but are the words over the card--or under the image?
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Mindy
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Re: Image Security - Watermark
Reply #29 - Sep 27th, 2007, 4:20pm
 
The way this new watermark is displayed depends on the size of the image.  It repeats more often on larger images.
 
And of course the placement will depend on the card orientation, landscape or portrait.
 
Not sure what you mean by "over" or "under" the image.  When the image is watermarked we actually alter the image and save it as a new file so the watermark is physically part of the image.  
 
Mindy
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Re: Image Security - Watermark
Reply #30 - Sep 28th, 2007, 3:34am
 
Quote from Mindy on Sep 27th, 2007, 4:20pm:


Not sure what you mean by "over" or "under" the image.  When the image is watermarked we actually alter the image and save it as a new file so the watermark is physically part of the image.  

Mindy

 
 
Thanks, Mindy--I wasn't sure if the watermark was on the 'paper' then the image went on top--or....wait, I'm a little slow--I guess that doesn't make any sense since they're not physically laid on top like a projector sheet...
 
doh!
-Kerra
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Mindy
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Re: Image Security - Watermark
Reply #31 - Sep 28th, 2007, 3:15pm
 
Quote from Kerra_131306 on Sep 28th, 2007, 3:34am:
Quote from Mindy on Sep 27th, 2007, 4:20pm:


Not sure what you mean by "over" or "under" the image.  When the image is watermarked we actually alter the image and save it as a new file so the watermark is physically part of the image.  

Mindy



Thanks, Mindy--I wasn't sure if the watermark was on the 'paper' then the image went on top--or....wait, I'm a little slow--I guess that doesn't make any sense since they're not physically laid on top like a projector sheet...

doh!
-Kerra

 
No problem  Wink  The term "watermark" itself of course is from the paper industry and traditionally was part of the paper.  The offical term online is a Digital Watermark.
 
A brief read if you're interested:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_watermark
 
So, we display the digitally watermarked image online and when it comes time to print a card we use the unaltered, original image.
 
 
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